Boris
- Thread starter pete50
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vinty
The "anti-semitism is rife in the Labour party"myth isn't actually about anti-semitism in the Labour party, it is about regime change in the Labour party to get rid of Corbyn and the others who support the Palestinian right to self determination and replacing them with a more Israel friendly leadership.
As I have pointed out before the anti-semitism slur is a far more potent weapon than any other racial slur.
It is noticible that when critics who claim that the Labour party is ''rife,awash, saturated' with anti semitism they don't actually produce any evidence to support their claims apart from alleged Corbyn supporters posting anti-semitic comments on twitter,Facebook and other social media.
Despite various polls by YouGov and others showing that anti-jewish sentiment is more prevalent among Tory supporters than Labour supporters ,the myth is more powerful than reality.
V
vinty
Wouldn't anti-jewish be a more appropriate as the term anti-Semitic is exclusively directed at Jewish people.
When people make derogatory comments about Jews they don't usually refer to them as Semites.
V
vinty
Jewish is an ethno/religious term, you can be a Jew by race or religion, a Jewish faith school in London was found guilty of racial discrimination a few years ago.
A Jewish man and his wife who had been raised Catholic had their application for a place at the school for their son rejected because the Jewish mans wife did not have Jewish mother.
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Of course, that's what I have been trying to explain.
It is less potent than anti-semitism which relates to racism unlike anti-jewish or anti-Israeli.
Exactly. In the (for some reason accepted) IHRA (not IHRC as I wrote earlier although no one seemed to notice) definition of ant-semitism there is no reference to semites - only mentioning actions against Jews and/or Israel.
It is as if they do not know that there are other semitic people with which they are genetically identical, including Arabs and Muslims, or have conveniently forgotten for some reason.
https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/working-definition-antisemitism
They do not because that is not why they are making the derogatory remarks.
It is usually about the actions of Jews and/or Israel which is nothing to do with their race.
One of the critcisms of the Labour party is that they do not include, in their definition of anti-semitism, all the clauses of the IHRA definition.
Perhaps someone has actually thought about it.
How can one be Jewish by race? "Ethno" ethnicity does not relate to a racial group.
Surely that would have been because the Jews discriminated against the different race of the mother; not because the Jews were Jewish.
V
vinty
The Labour party has endorsed most of the IHRA definition except the clauses referring to criticism of Israel ,unfortunately for the Labour party the clauses referring to the criticism of Israel are the most important part of the IHRA definition to those behind the drive to have it endorsed by the Labour.
The reality is you don't need an unelected committee to tell you what anti-semitism or rather anti-jewish sentiment is, if the Labour party adopt the clauses regarding criticism of Israel it could lead to a situation were only speech in defence of Israel would be considered acceptable any negative speech towards Israel could be construed as anti-semitic and therefore could lead to prosecution.
Precisely.
Everyone is to scared to even question the definition - as then they would even be accused of doubting the holocaust..
Everyone is to scared to even question the definition - as then they would even be accused of doubting the holocaust..
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vinty
It is a bit of a puzzle,some Jews claim to be jewish by religion only, others claim to be Jews by race although most Jews are of European descent therefore not a distinct race as such.
Jewish religious law dictates that someone can only be considered Jewish if they have a Jewish mother or by religious conversion, so I guess it could be argued that as Jewish identity is based on religious law and not race law therefore jewishness is a religious identity.
They can claim whatever they want. That doesn't make it so.
Exactly (again). Religion can be changed; race cannot. So ...
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vinty
This IHRA group had Tony Blair working for them a few years ago, they were using Blair to Lobby in the UK for the Government to introduce holocaust denial laws which would mean individuals who showed scepticism to the accepted narrative could be jailed, I think in Germany it is up to ten years for holocaust revisionism.
Blair claimed he didn't receive any money for his work but his 'charity' foundation did receive a donation.
Was that by any chance while he was Middle East Peace Envoy? He probably got money from somewhere.
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vinty
Who ever gave Blair the job as middle east Peace envoy must have had a very sick sense of irony given Blair's previous history over there.
As for money most of these top politicians have their own so called charity foundations, one of Blair's went bankrupt, to much money went on expenses as a result there was none left to do any good works, the Clinton's foundations are worth millions,
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How can one have a sensible discussion with someone who hops from one foot to the the other in order "to be right"?
You were discussing western society, now you have swapped to global issues.
Sure there is oppression in the world, how about the oppressed school kids, on a school bus, that were blown apart in Yemen by Saudi Arabia yesterday? With weapons provided by western society?
1. An article about a woman who was free to stop wearing the hijab because she could. 2. A Dubai based magazine, printed in English, not Arabic! 3. Who do you think its target audience is?
An incident in Iran about group of kids who were breaking the law.
We might disagree with the law, but it is stupid to demonstrate by breaking that law!
Another incident in Iran.
We consider Iranian society o be oppressive because we have not been 'conditioned' (socialised) into that society.
Which is why 'western ' media highlights such incidents.
It is oppressive when western society supplies weapons to target school buses full of children in a market place!
It is oppressive when western society invades another country on a pretext.
It is oppressive when western society bombs another country into oblivion because we disagree with their leader.
It is oppressive when western society imposes sanctions on another country because we disagree with their politics.
Have we been 'conditioned' into accepting such oppression without question?
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My comment was purely in response to the allegation that Corbyn is anti-Semitic, to demonstrate that the allegation was erroneous and a misrepresentation of the facts.
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