Brexit one year on - so what are the advantages?

[ellal]

The EU worked very well for the UK

we had more opt outs than any other nation and were a major player with a great deal of influence.

UK enjoyed considerable inward investment due to single market access.

the major problems the UK is suffering now is due to loss of being in the Single Market and we’ve yielded no benefits from leaving.

So do tell us...

Why did you vote to leave the EU?

 

[AngleEyes]

Nah mate, I don't drink since I saw what too much French whine does to people. There is hope for you though if you turn off your modem for at least one hour every day and try and leave the house you may have a wife one day. 48 years, 364 days and counting til we can settle our bet.

You'll lose count after 2, Ganja addles your brain.
It already has in your case.

Amen to that, same people try to belittle casual ganja use too, nom sayin?

 

[AngleEyes]

Isn't there a similar argument along the lines of "Women/minorities should just shut-up and accept lower wages because the system is making us all rich"? An abused wife is going to be poorer outside of the relationship, but that doesn't necessarily mean she shouldn't leave. Iffy analogies perhaps, but bear with me...

Very iffy analogies!
Comparing UK membership of EU with underpaid women or minorities, or abused wives is far worse than just iffy.
It's utterly nonsensical.

There's a tendency amongst the left-wing to prioritise the individual and their rights over the rights of any entity whether it's a country, a company region or whatever.

Is there? I thought communism was left-wing.

There's a tendency for the right-wing to over-state the importance of national identity.

Nonsense! You are claiming that nepotism is in the national interest. Sure far-right (i.e. Nazism, Fascism) is far-right and supposedly in the national interest, but when you get down to the details, it's just excuses for nepotism.

But at the end of the day people are people. They want their identity, be it country/race or whatever and I don't see that changing any time soon, it's just human nature.

No it's not. It might be your nature, but migrants are generally welcoming of their adopted culture.

The EU, meanwhile has this strange mix of the two, where they allow for instance freedom of movement to some extent, the rights of the individual... to some extent, and yet they have a system for punishing national governments for the (in)actions of the few (e.g. pollution targets) and indirectly individual tax payers.

The punishments are meted out for ignoring or not achieving targets set to improve the lives of the 500,000,000 people. Those targets are set with a purpose, which is not some idea caught in mid-air for some nefarious reason.

If they get things wrong from an individual's perspective (ECHR judgements) can be considered bad luck, if they get it wrong for a country it could affect large numbers of people in that country, perhaps more psychologically than in real terms.

ECHR exists to protect individual's rights? And it's nothing to do with EU. You are obviously confused.

The European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) protects the human rights of people in countries that belong to the Council of Europe. All 47 Member States of the Council, including the UK, have signed the Convention.
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/what-european-convention-human-rights#:~:text=The European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) protects the human,UK, have signed the Convention.
​

The EU itself seems to prioritise certain things. It doesn't just sit there impartial letting markets decide. For instance it prioritises keeping food production in the EU.

It prioritises keeping food standards irrespective of where the food originates from. Your argument is arse-about-face.

You could make similar arguments about other industries, how they also need to be kept in the EU,

Go on then. Tell us how EU keeps Mercedes and BMW in Germany. Or how UK could not have kept Nissan in Sunderland.
Or tell us how EU keeps wine and cheese production in France.

If these policies disadvantage certain countries (e.g. the ones with small amounts of agricultural land) then it doesn't matter how much money everyone is making.

That'll be why there are other grants/subsidies/loans/ etc in existence.
You appear to be only aware of the CAP. That's your shortcoming. Don't blame the EU.

People get a bad taste in their mouths. They *feel* disadvantaged. And it's the feeling that counts here.

People get a bad taste from the perpetual promotion of false stories and fallacious arguments.

FOM is a great example of something suiting industry. It gets you 100s of strawberry pickers when you need them, but if you don't count in the right number of midwives, teachers, doctors, you're going to have some problems. Industry makes $$$, at the expense of health service provision. How do you measure this? Or do you just believe the HS reduction is negligible? Is it just a temporary glitch that you discount completely from any arguments. It isn't negligible if it affected you, I can assure you. In fact it makes your ****ing blood boil. A common argument (usually without any supplied figures) is to just say people are 'scapegoating', another argument (Abbott's favourite, again figures are not her strong point) is to point out migrants are 'propping up the NHS'. You may have seen a couple of migrants working in the NHS, but that doesn't mean anyone is propping up anything. 'Tory cuts' are another favourite, but if you actually check the number of open positions in some of these professions (and I have) you invariably see that the NHS is hiring... or trying to hire... an awful lot of people.

In summary you need an answer to these problems instead of shouting abuse at people for not voting the way you want. If you want to re-join you simply have to do better. It really is that simple. That's why I said I believe we can re-join with the right approach, just not the way we run things now.

I can't be bothered pulling the rest of your nonsensical argument to pieces. It's built on bigotry, ignorance and misunderstanding.
It only appears simple to someone without the ability to understand complex situations.

 

[Justin Passing]

This seems to be yet another thread where trolls try to out-quibble each other and claim superior abilities to analyse and understand, while showing evidence to the contrary.

For anyone prepared to listen, there's a talk which may be of interest:
https://www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-and-events/brexit-learned?mc_cid=bf64a4044b&mc_eid=f7632937a8

Most of their lectures are good, though they've had to "explain" the odd one which was below par..

 

[AngleEyes]

This seems to be yet another thread where trolls try to out-quibble each other and claim superior abilities to analyse and understand, while showing evidence to the contrary.

That's a universal truth when someone adds nothing to the debate.

 

[Notch7]

This seems to be yet another thread where trolls try to out-quibble each other and claim superior abilities to analyse and understand, while showing evidence to the contrary.

For anyone prepared to listen, there's a talk which may be of interest:
https://www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-and-events/brexit-learned?mc_cid=bf64a4044b&mc_eid=f7632937a8

Most of their lectures are good, though they've had to "explain" the odd one which was below par..

Anand Menon has written some really good articles.

but since he is a professor of European politics, he is an expert, so of no interest to brexers

 

[The Baker]

The British people can vote to change those in Government.

Those at the top of the EU.are not removable by folks like me.

That was why I voted to leave.

I accept that my decision has its price but I was and am prepared to put up with it.

 

[JohnD]

you, personally, have as much power to change the Prime Minister as you do to change the leadership of the EU.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

you, personally, have as much power to change the Prime Minister as you do to change the leadership of the EU.

That is just a silly statement, it is quite doable.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Do it tomorrow then.

 

[Notch7]

The British people can vote to change those in Government.

Those at the top of the EU.are not removable by folks like me.

That was why I voted to leave.

I accept that my decision has its price but I was and am prepared to put up with it.

the British ruling classes are laughing their head off at how they’ve manipulated you into believing this country has democracy.


Do you remember Owen Paterson, when asked about getting £500k for lobbying, he said “I done nothing wrong, I would do it again tomorrow”. Thats your tax money he pocketed.

 

[AngleEyes]

The British people can vote to change those in Government.

Those at the top of the EU.are not removable by folks like me.

That was why I voted to leave.

I accept that my decision has its price but I was and am prepared to put up with it.

When will you vote to elect anyone to the House of Lords, or to the Cabinet Secretary, or the Press Secretary, or the Director of Communications or the Chief of Staff (remember him? He went to Barnard Castle to test his eye sight?)?
There's an awful lot more unelected in number 10 than there is elected.

It is a fair argument that you would rather be one vote in 65,000,000 then one in 500,000,000. But that is accepting that you'd rather be a fish in small pond, than a fish in big pond. But as fish go, you're still the same size, just with different horizons and opportunities.

 

[Notch7]

fish in small pond, than a fish in big pond. But as fish go, you're still the same size, just with different horizons and opportunities

Rees Pudd said British are happier being worse off

 

[Justin Passing]

Grauniad article: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...t-going?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB
Nothing to cheer there.

 

[JohnD]

so show us the one in the Torygraph.