Can you clear this one up for me?

[fattony]

I had to install a Fused spur for a Fire alarm panel today, just above the fuse board was a 6inch trunking that ran about 40m in my direction. When I opened the trunking the first section was full so cable tied to some tray (approx 5m) at the end of the tray I again looked in the trunking and saw there was plenty of room, so I popped in the trunknig for the rest of my journey.

About at the end of the trunking I popped out drilled through a wall and bingo I was just above the spur. carried out all the tests - then got told by the site manager that I was not allowed to use the trunking as its against the regs (mixing cable types) and as it was for a Fire Alarm spur in his eyes it was completley wrong, I used up the customers space factor with my cable, correction THEIR cable THEIR Fire Alarm system.

Basically the guy wants me to remove it from the trunking and clip direct, the cable I used was FP400 its a fire proof SWA, existing cables in the trunking are a mixture but generally singles.

Is he right or am I ? To recap its a 6inch trunking with room for my cable the cable is a swa mixing with singles - they just want the room for future expansion.

I really need a BS number to shove down his throat, any ideas?

 

[fireman22]

fire alarm should not be fed from a fused spur

 

[fattony]

why not?

 

[fireman22]

against BS5839-1

 

[nozspark]

fire alarm should not be fed from a fused spur

Where in the regs does it say this? 563-01-03 only says that overload protection may be ommited

 

[fattony]

Explain. Its a fixed appliance unswitched fused spur so it can't be switched off. I have done loads of work for Fire alarm companies and they always ask for a fused spur. ADT for example

 

[fattony]

Hey nozspark's in my corner

 

[fattony]

Hey nozspark's in my corner

 

[fireman22]

you are quoting BS7671 i am on about BS5839 fire alarm standard 2002

 

[RF Lighting]

What cables are contained within the trunking? Is it all mains cables?

The fellar is kind of right about not mixing cable types. If you were installing a fire alarm cable in the trunking then this would not be allowed, but as your cable is mains I cannot think of any reason for not installing it in the trunking, other than if the trunking was exceeding its grouping factor or fill capacity.

There is no reg saying you can install the circuit the way you have, but ask him for the reg which states you can't


Fireman what do you suggest then if you don't use a fused spur to connect the fire alarm to?

 

[fattony]

All the cables in the trunking are 230v, your right about the low voltage cables installed with mains but remember if the insulation value is the same then BS7671 is happy - Fire Alarm Manufactures are not

I acknowledged the spacing factor by not installing it in the trunking for the first 5m (as it was full) he never siad it was against the regs but the regs are not happy with it. Then moved onto say we've got loads of problems with not enough room in the trunking's around the site and they are actually paying people to come in and re route some cables to free up some space.

It may just be a BBC policy (yup its Eastenders..... still) but someone could have told me before.

 

[nozspark]

Tony,
As far as I can see your situation does not break any of the regs in BS7671:2001(2004) Chapter 56.

However when you were contracted to do the job you should have discussed with them what erection method they wanted you to use; if not, then they should have stipulated the method of erection.

In this case I would probably explain to them that you were not made fully aware of their requirements (with regard to clipped direct) and that the method you used was not against regs (show book now..), but that if they wish, you will redo work (surface clipped) at their expense.

Or you bite the bullet and just do it if they are or could be a good customer

 

[fireman22]

you use a double pole keyswitch, as bs5839 states double pole isolation.
anyone can isolate panel if you use a spur unit (they just prise out the fuse)

 

[fattony]

Or you bite the bullet and just do it if they are or could be a good customer

Nope its the BBC who are trying to screw us for every little thing, we did discuss the route and he pointed out a tray which was full of fire alarm cables so I said we cant use that we could use the trunking and he said yep or clip whichever. He has now forgotten this conversation and says I should remove at my expense.

No Way

 

[nozspark]

you are quoting BS7671 i am on about BS5839 fire alarm standard 2002

Yes, surely as this is the supply for a fire alarm (230v) then it comes under BS7671....BS5839 would only apply to the fire alarm circuity it's self, not it's supply.