Can you clear this one up for me?

[fattony]

you use a double pole keyswitch, as bs5839 states double pole isolation.
anyone can isolate panel if you use a spur unit (they just prise out the fuse)

So it doesn't say you cant use a unswitched fused spur, anyone who has a key can throw the switch either way you still require a tool a key or a terminal screwdriver.

I disagree

 

[fireman22]

nozspark, the local isolation must be a double pole keyswitch forget bs7671 the fire alarm inst. cert will have a departure if you use a spur.

 

[fireman22]

hey fattony i dont make the rules dont shoot the messenger. anyone with a key, nail, lollypop stick etc can prise out the fuse on a spur you will need a fishtail key to operate a keyswitch i dont care if you "diagree" 5839 is right & you are wrong they only cost £10 and thats an MK version

 

[fattony]

from memory the fire certificate asks the supply is dedicated with local means of isolation, I can honstley say I have never installed a keyswitch or seen a keyswitch to isolate a fire alarm panel.

The supply has to come under BS7671

 

[fireman22]

i am looking at my copy of BS5839-1 2002 as we speak so now i dont know what to say to convince you, i am not lying or trying to make you look small in front of your customer, honest.

 

[RF Lighting]

you will need a fishtail key to operate a keyswitch

Or a small screwdriver, paperclip, hair clip, biro insert etc etc

 

[nozspark]

Nope its the BBC who are trying to screw us for every little thing, we did discuss the route and he pointed out a tray which was full of fire alarm cables so I said we cant use that we could use the trunking and he said yep or clip whichever. He has now forgotten this conversation and says I should remove at my expense.

No Way

If they either are or could be a good customer then it might be worth it to bite the bullet.
However on your next job for them you will make sure that they agree to errection methods, routes etc in writing before you start the work. If you include that information in the quote you give them, and they accept it, then that is your contract. Any deviations will then break the contract and could then become extras..

 

[fireman22]

RF Lighting, fattony, nozspark read this
g) Every isolator, switch and protective device that is capable of disconnecting the mains supply to the
fire alarm system should be situated in a position inaccessible to unauthorized persons or be protected
against unauthorized operation by persons without a special tool.
NOTE 4 A special tool may, for example, be a key actuator (sometimes called “secret key”) for a mains switch device.

direct quote from 5839-1 2002
bye
ps you cant use a spur

 

[RF Lighting]

I never said you can

 

[fattony]

NOTE 4 A special tool may, for example, be a key actuator (sometimes called “secret key”) for a mains switch device.

See the word May, well it may be a terminal screwdriver - it doesn't actually say you cannot use a spur does it, just that prevent unauthorised access. I will look furthr into this.

 

[nozspark]

RF Lighting, fattony, nozspark read this
g) Every isolator, switch and protective device that is capable of disconnecting the mains supply to the
fire alarm system should be situated in a position inaccessible to unauthorized persons or be protected
against unauthorized operation by persons without a special tool.
NOTE 4 A special tool may, for example, be a key actuator (sometimes called “secret key”) for a mains switch device.

direct quote from 5839-1 2002
bye
ps you cant use a spur

What would you say to a FS [edit] 10 foot up a wall with a screw down fuse holder??

The main thing is though that if Tony has been asked to supply and fit a FS for a fire panel then that is what he has given them.

 

[fireman22]

fat tony it does say a fishtail key may be a special tool but no way can you say a terminal screwdriver is a special tool, unless there are special ones about that normal joe public cant get. i thought you wanted ammo to tell this guy you know more than him?

 

[fireman22]

no spark local isolation along side fire panel should be fish tail keyswitch, end of story. Why would you want to put a spur when you can buy a nice engraved "Fire Alarm" Keyswitch?

 

[nozspark]

I am not saying it would not look nice or even that it is not the better option, what I am doing is playing devils advocate.
Even with a "Fire alarm" keyswitch, if someone was determined they could disable the alarm with a 4mm flat bladed screwdriver - it wouldn't take long either - the main thing is though; is that you make it difficult. You will never make it impossible!!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

What about a proper key-operated switch like this?