car seats

[ban-all-sheds]

id buy a vehicle that offers the most protection for my family, taking on board other factors such as comfort etc.

Do you take on board the factor of how much risk you put other road users under by your choice?

if you choose to buy something that offers less for your family thats up to you.

I live in society.

I am not selfish and disregarding of the rights of others.

you could just as easily be branded selfish by buying something on the basis that it offers a higher speed, rather than safety. Since speed is the major contribution in the majority of accidents would that make you selfish?

What would make me selfish would be the way I choose to drive it.

I can choose not to expose other road users to undue risks by choosing not to drive fast.

If you drive a "4x4" in an urban environment, how do you choose not to allow its mass, size and shape to represent a bigger risk to other road users than a normal car does?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So you'd rather give your family less protection would you?

So you'd buy yours' by deliberately doing something that increases the risk to mine, would you?

Charity begins at home.

Do unto others as you would be done to.

 

[markie]

Bas you nit-pick over anything.

When i drive and have the kids in the car i drive extra carefull, ( not that i don't other times ) but when your by yourself you've only got yourself to think about. If i had a chance i would drive a tank when the kids are with me, not because of my driving but of others, theres always nuggets on the road ie joyriders etc...

PS women.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

theres always nuggets on the road ie joyriders etc...

And people by themselves in the car, who of course only have themselves to think about.

 

[markie]

theres always nuggets on the road ie joyriders etc...

And people by themselves in the car, who of course only have themselves to think about.

Read the first bit of my post,

 

[DidgePlayer]

If you drive a "4x4" in an urban environment, how do you choose not to allow its mass, size and shape to represent a bigger risk to other road users than a normal car does?

Surely by the way you choose to drive it.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

In what way can you drive it that makes it lighter, or changes the shape of the front?

 

[DidgePlayer]

But that's not what you asked. To avoid it being a bigger risk, drive it more carefully, read the road ahead to avoid a collision in the first place.

Drive according to the vehicle type. A bus/van/lorry would do as much if not more damage in the same circumstances as a 4X4 in an accident.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

But that's not what you asked. To avoid it being a bigger risk, drive it more carefully, read the road ahead to avoid a collision in the first place.

That may indeed reduce the risk of an accident, but probably won't completely prevent any.

So in the event of an accident, what can you do to prevent the weight and size/shape of a "4x4" posing more risk, or doing more damage than a normal car.

Drive according to the vehicle type. A bus/van/lorry would do as much if not more damage in the same circumstances as a 4X4 in an accident.

Buses vans and lorries have to be the size/shape and weight that they are.

Private cars for use in towns and cities do not have to be the size/shape and weight of "4x4s".

 

[DidgePlayer]

So in the event of an accident, what can you do to prevent the weight and size/shape of a "4x4" posing more risk, or doing more damage than a normal car.

Nothing, it is what it is.

Whilst I agree with you of the inherent dangers of these vehicles, I don't think people buy them with specific disregard to other road users.

I think people, generally, are unaware of the possible increased damage/injury and need to be educated to that fact, with a hope to improving their driving abililty and reduce the possibility of accidents occuring in the first place.

It's a slim hope I know but the chances of stopping people buying them are even slimmer.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Whilst I agree with you of the inherent dangers of these vehicles, I don't think people buy them with specific disregard to other road users.

If they say they are buying them "because they are safer in a crash" I don't believe they think through what they are really saying.

I think people, generally, are unaware of the possible increased damage/injury and need to be educated to that fact, with a hope to improving their driving abililty and reduce the possibility of accidents occuring in the first place.

It's a slim hope I know but the chances of stopping people buying them are even slimmer.

It will take time.

The arguments here, and elsewhere, in their favour remind me of the ones that were against drink-driving laws, like "I'm perfectly safe when I've had a few", or even "I drive better after a few pints", or "It's OK as long as you're careful".

 

[Steve]

Read the road all you like, drive as carefully as you like. There will always be another driver who ISNT, and who could collide with you. As I demonstrated last October.

(I hate to think what might have become of the guy in the other car, had I been driving a bigger car. He'd probably have been killed)

 

[Thermo]

ban-all-sheds wrote

A load of sanctamoneous self rightous clap trap

Carry on making your sweeping statements and your long winded quoted replies BAS. Im sorry but there are more factors involved in the causes of road deaths than the size of vehicles. Ill do whatever it takes to protect my family and keep them safe. If that makes me selfish then im selfish. As i said though i dont drive one, and i dont make sweeping statements about a whole section of society just because of what they do.

By the way whats a normal car by your definition?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Carry on making your sweeping statements and your long winded quoted replies BAS. Im sorry but there are more factors involved in the causes of road deaths than the size of vehicles.

Of course there are, but choosing to drive unnecessarily heavy and high vehicles adds a completely avoidable cause to the others

Ill do whatever it takes to protect my family and keep them safe.

Whatever it takes?

Including deliberately choosing a vehicle that puts other people and their families at extra risk, and makes them less safe?

If that makes me selfish then im selfish. As i said though i dont drive one, and i dont make sweeping statements about a whole section of society just because of what they do.

The vehicles are what they are, and nothing the owners can do reduces their weight nor makes their high vertical fronts safer for pedestrians. So the charge of driving a less-than-safe vehicle inevitably applies to the entire section of society that drives them.

By the way whats a normal car by your definition?

There is no formal definition I can use, which is why I have been careful to put "4x4" into quotes.

It is disingenuous of you to claim you don't know what sort of vehicles I'm talking about.

 

[2scoops0406]

Drive your 4x4 a bit slower. A couple of calculations shows that if I drive my 4x4 at 30 MPH a BMW 7 series driver needs to drive at only 33.76 MPH to have the same kinetic energy as my vehicle and only 37.98 MPH to have the same momentum.

For an BMW X5 (Top of the range) the values are 32.23 MPH and 34.64 MPH
For a Volvo XC70 the values are 27.7 MPH and 25.57 MPH

So if you have a "heavy" 4x4 drive a bit slower, if you have a Volvo XC70 you can drive as quickly as a large saloon car.

Then look at the pedestrian NCAP ratings for

Common cars

BMW 5 Series one star
Mercedes E class one star
Peugeot 607 one star
Audi A6 one star
Alfa romeo 159 one star
Citroen C5 one star
Ford Mondeo no stars
Mercedes C class no stars
Saab 9-3 one star

Common 4x4's

BMW X5 one star
Mercedes M class one star
Jeep Chrokee one star
Land Rover Discovery III one star
Volvo XC90 two stars

So there we are then.