Carbon monoxide alarm from gas fire

[gas112]

This is is a windup cant be anything else

 

[DP]

a calibrated flame ( from an accurately sized pilot jet ) heating a thermocouple to prove there is a flame burning the gas is not a "totally unnecessary part"

The oxygen content of the combustion air affects the size of the flame. If the oxygen content is too low then the pilot flame is less effective at heating the thermo-couple and the output from the thermo-couple is then too low to hold the gas valve open.

Simple device but needs to be maintained to ensure the size of the pilot flame is correct. Regular replacement seems a sensible way to ensure this safety device will work correctly.

Bernard, why should the pilot assembly need replaced annually if it is working correctly?
Do you even know how this component works
I suspect there is an issue with installation rather than needing pilot assembly replaced annually (going by what the OP has stated in his replies)
Have been to many fires where this particular pilot burner shuts the fire down when spillage occurs
OP has not, at page one, said if the installer is registered and his registration has been confirmed?

Having read all the pages, a few alarm bells are ringing, obvious one being flue restrictor. Have not looked at the manual but would not be surprised if instructions are crystal clear if restrictir should be in place or not.

Discolouration of trim top of the fire suggests incorrect operation, wonder why the original fitter is faffing about taking CO readings all over the house

 

[bernardgreen]

Bernard, why should the pilot assembly need replaced annually if it is working correctly?

A bit like replacing the cam belt in a car engine. Works perfectly until due to predicted wear and tear it fails and the engine is written off. No doubt the manufacturer of the fire has predicted the safety features of their oxypilot will ( may have ) have degraded to be unsafe after a year.

Do you even know how this component works

Two flames. one aimed towards the main burner to ignite that and a separate flame that, only if enough oxygen is present, will heat the thermocouple sufficient for it to generate enough current to hold the gas valve open

Have been to many fires where this particular pilot burner shuts the fire down when spillage occurs

I would have thought there would have to be a lot of spillage to reduce oxygen content far enough that the thermocouple was too cool to hold the gas valve open That suggests that the "calibration" of the oxypilot during assembly is critical and thus wear and tear that affects the calibration is equally critical for ensuring safe operation of the fire.

 

[DP]

Bernard, safety feature? Wonder why then all fire manufacturers do not stipulate annual replacement of Pilot burner

Two flames. You are guessing

Pilot burner is special. That is why it is known as ODS pilot assembly. Spillage occurs, room depleted of oxygen, pilot outage occurs

 

[AGAS]

I've read the manufacturer instructions , and I'm never installing a valor fire ever again the cheaky pr!cks . " hello customer - ill service your fire next year but you will have to pay £50 - £80 ????? ODS pilot plus services + VAT " . rip off fookers ( now wondering why valor ask for this , is it just to make extra money MMMmmmmm ). worst thing is I've only just fitted a valor fire in my granddads house but can't remember reading that .

something just doesn't sound right with this op's problem ( just don't know what it is ) . OP if your not talking shyte , please get someone in through proper research ( recommendations ) to sort your problem, not because you want it installed yesterday . it might mean buying a new fire suitable for your flue . thats if your chimney/flue is suitable

did you get anything in writing from your valor engineer ?? .

danlightbulb where do you live ( area ) ? someone here might be able to help to have a look and speak to valor , it would be probably cheaper all round to buy another fire that you know is suitable

 

[bernardgreen]

Two flames. You are guessing

No. remembering the ones on some industrial equipment. Later they were replaced by a flame colour sensor.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Bernard, this thread is about gas safety and your witterings are not helping.

The course of action for the Op's parents is very clear.

All the professionals here agree.

Fwiw I bloody hate gas fires.

 

[polesapart]

O.P.

The oxypilot issue is a red herring. A failed oxypilot will switch the appliance off.

Enough has been posted here to suggest that there is a real possibility that the original CO alarm sounding was not a false positive.

Get Gas Safe involved. The clue is in the name.

If one of their inspectors passes the installation as safe everyone concerned can sleep easy. If there are faults with the installation they will say so and these can - and must be - put right.

 

[AGAS]

Get Gas Safe involved. The clue is in the name.

but the OP/ parents is reluctant to call them , which i don't understand . they would rather risk co poisoning than confrontation .
OP, its not only your parents safety but anyone that visits

 

[ollski]

I guess valor have gone that route as there is nothing else to really fail on a fire is there?, so this will pretty much absolve them of any warranty calls and they can shed a few more employees.
Who cares about the oxypilot anyway, what is the relevance to the original fault?, did it trip?, has genuine spillage been detected?. I've never seen an oxypilot cut the supply in real operation before and I would imagine by the time it operated I would be pretty well into the land of nod anyway.

 

[danlightbulb]

Just to clarify the fire is a Flaval Windsor Plus, not a Valor as I originally said. I did clarify this a few posts ago sorry for the original mix up.

Just to pick up on some points above.

My dad says he has checked the installers registration. I have not personally done this but will now.

I am not sure if any spillage has been detected actually. The tests done by the original fitter say it's safe and the national grid guy has commented on some discolouration around the top of the fire on the chrome frame, but not sure if any spillage was proven.

On the night of the alarm it was about 2am according to my dad. My mom had gone to bed and my dad had fell asleep on the sofa in the living room with the door and curtains shut and the fire on a medium setting. The fire itself didn't trip, the alarm is located high on the wall opposite the fireplace, 4m away.

My mom seems to have a view that she wants to continue to use the fire (now that its been tested) and see if the alarm sounds again to confirm a problem for her. I guess in anything other than a gas safety issue this would be a fair approach.

This isn't a wind up guys I promise. I understand all the views to get gas safe in and I am pushing my parents to do that but I don't think they will. They'll probably end up going to a fire shop and getting a new fire. I have persuaded them not to use the fire. I'm thinking of getting them an alarm with a digital readout? Is this a good idea?

Btw I'm near dudley West mids.

 

[Agile]

To avoid confusion and erroneous searches, could you go back and edit all of your posts to correct the fire make and model.

 

[Steelmasons]

To avoid confusion and erroneous searches, could you go back and edit all of your posts to correct the fire make and model.

.......only if you say please and thank you.

 

[AGAS]

Say again , Who are they going to believe more the original engineer or flavel
Engineer regarding suitability of flue ??? You can't just fit any fire on any flue or chimney , and just relying on a co detector FFS.....

also if ESA attends and suspects staining/spillage they will turn supply of anyway

 

[ollski]

Although if flavel went and the fire was fitted on the wrong (unsuitable) chimney and had spilled and set off the co alarm the guy would leave it operating?. Something doesn't stack up.