Carbon monoxide alarm from gas fire

[Dan Robinson]

My parents haven't used the fire and promised they won't be. They are going to get a new one from a fireplace shop. However they don't want to do the gas safe inspection.

Right. I've had enough of this nonsense. Kindly feck off.

 

[gas112]

I will ask again, did the flavel engineer remove the fire when he attended

 

[danlightbulb]

I will ask again, did the flavel engineer remove the fire when he attended

Yes he did. He said it was the wrong type of fire for the flue, commented on some deterioration of the brickwork inside the fire cavity, and said that the fire surround hadn't been sealed back against the wall. He pushed it back after but did not refit it as it was already disconnected by this point.

Hence why they are going to get a new fire from a shop, installed by the shop's own fitters which will be suitable for the type of flue. The house was built in 83 it's not really old so I don't understand how the flue can be that bad.

The problem with all this is that don't have central heating so have desire for a more powerful fire unit to heat the room. It's not just used as a top up - it's their main heat source. They use electric oil heaters in the rest of the house.

 

[danlightbulb]

Right. I've had enough of this nonsense. Kindly feck off.

I understand the frustration as you are a professional person.

I have again discussed this with my parents. They do not want to report the guy and risk depriving him of his living. They won't change their mind. I understand that you won't agree with this.

Part of the reasoning for this is that they now know the fire is wrong for the flue so are expecting to have to pay out for a new one in any case. They do not want the hassle of trying to reclaim costs for this off the original fitter, may not ever get them and go through a load of hassle.

 

[Dan Robinson]

And what happens if he is incompetent and screws up again? Only the customer / victim is not so lucky.

They will be deprived if more dirt you think?

 

[FiremanT]

Pre cast flue - Restrictor is always removed. If you can't work out how to remove it, then choose another career.
Atmospheric conditions will affect flue performance.

Has anyone climbed into the loft?

 

[danlightbulb]

And what happens if he is incompetent and screws up again? Only the customer / victim is not so lucky.

They will be deprived if more dirt you think?

Well that's what his repeat certification exams and your industry body is for. My mom and dad don't want the hassle. They are early 60's not 90's they have all their faculties and can make their own decisions.

Pre cast flue - Restrictor is always removed. If you can't work out how to remove it, then choose another career.
Atmospheric conditions will affect flue performance.

Has anyone climbed into the loft?

The difficulty is that I'm getting my information 3rd hand off my parents. I am told he didn't remove the spigot piece - but having never seen the fire unit rear nor inside the fire cavity I cannot say for certain what is there.

The original installer did go into the loft yes. I believe checking for any fumes or damage to the flue (which in the loft I think may be a metal tube I can't quite remember). He says it is safe.


This is why they've decided just to get a new fire. If all of this is simply down to the incorrect flue for the fire then only that will sort it out. They see no point in calling in more people only for them to say the same thing.

Personally I don't know why the flue shouldn't be suitable - the old fire they had (an outset radiant type in the 80's - one of these:

), kicked out alot more heat than the current natural flame style one.

 

[AGAS]

Personally I don't know why the flue shouldn't be suitable - the old fire they had (an outset radiant type in the 80's - one of these:

), kicked out alot more heat than the current natural flame style one.

this fire on the precast flue ???

 

[danlightbulb]

Not that exact one but that style of fire. That was what was originally in when the house was built.

I found a good article on this. http://www.installeronline.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Stacking-up.pdf

Excerpt:

This change in BS 1289 in 1986 meant that chimneys installed between 1975 and 1986 are not to standard and consequently cannot be used for a new installation. When installing a gas fire to a pre-cast chimney/ flue system, the appliance manufacturer’s instructions must be followed, firstly to check that the appliance is suitable for installation with precast flues, and secondly to ensure it is suitable for a pre-cast flue to BS 1289: 1986.

It looks like my parents have just been unlucky that their house falls in to that very narrow band of time where there was a failure to install appropriate flues.

I think its worth noting that this current fire is the second natural flame one they have had, after the first one broke. The first one, installed via a proper fireplace shop, never picked up the chimney issue either and there was cracking to the upstairs bedroom plaster due to the heat radiating up the flue. This is not just a single failing of one engineer, this is a systemic failing of the standards system in the 80's, the original housebuilder and all the fire fitters they have used in the years since.

They need to find a fire which explicitly states it can be used with BS1289: 1975. I have been looking and have not found a single fire that mentions it yet.

Edit - I have found some old fashioned looking radiant or outset fires that mention compliance with BS1289: 1975. However I know they will want a more modern inset style living flame fire. I cannot for the life of me think why it makes a difference as the heat goes up the flue in either case. Please could someone enlighten me.

 

[danlightbulb]

Right Ive been reading up on this entire situation - looking at manuals etc.

We are not being given the right advice by anyone it seems.


The fire they have now (a Flavel Windsor Plus), has the following in the manual:

This says therefore, that this fire CAN be installed into pre-cast flue systems.

It says that the spigot piece must be removed.

It talks about minimum dimensions and the use of a spacer if these are not met.

It says that the fire has only been TESTED against BS EN 1858 - it does not say that it cannot be used in the earlier BS 1289. It says that if the flue is directly plastered then some cracking may occur, which is fair enough.

What we need to do is get someone who knows exactly how to handle this particular flue system, as it seems that the fire is actually suitable. So why did the Flavel engineer say it wasn't?

 

[denso13]

The instructions also say;

Establish which type of flue you are intending to install the fire in to :-
225 x 225mm (9 inch x 9 inch) brick built chimneys
175mm (7 inch) diameter lined brick or stone flue, insulated pre-fabricated
metal flue box to BS 715 / BS EN 1856-2 or Pre-Cast Flue to BS EN 1858

It isn't suitable for the old flue system. Just because the instructions don't explicitly mention BS 1289 doesn't mean the flue is ok.

 

[gas112]

He said it isnt because as i have previously said there is minimum dimensions not listed in the instruction book that must be met

 

[danlightbulb]

Ok so can anyone help with what fires can actually be used in a bs1289 1975 regulations precast flue system?

 

[gas112]

yep ,,,suitable ones

 

[AGAS]

just keep it simple FFS and get the shop to do everything , survey , advice on suitable fire and the install , oh and don't get a fire that needs a ods pilot assembly every year . just keep the paperwork and receipts