Caught Red Handed

[Softus]

look through the list again

I stand corrected, and apologise for any confusion caused by my error. To answer your question, I have no way of knowing whether or not my friends are paedophiles. I have an opinion of course, which is that they aren't, but that's not the same as fact.

i mean the room your sat on now

I leave this room when I need to go into another room, or into the garden, or to another place outside this house/road/village/county/country/continent/hemisphere.

your right about what you do for a living its non of my business, i didnt know it was a secret.

The reason that you didn't know it was a secret is that it isn't a secret.

i could of guessed and this is evident with the words sort of added to the begining.

It's very impressive that you guessed the truth after you read it. As for the rest of the sentence, I have no idea what it means.

if your sumising your guessing.

Well, let's just say that you're right about the meaning of the word shall we? I don't care - it really is an awful long way from the point I was making.

 

[Slogger]

SOFTUS

there is no law in the land or anywhere that will deny parents of retribution
you may say its illegal i says its the way justice is meant to be

if you lose a loved one to these scum you have a GOD GIVEN RIGHT to take theres ( not religious myself)

why stand up for murdering scum why would you do that i am worried about your ill placed loyalties

and yes you are in the same boat as B.A.S as you wont advocate torture/murderous intent to these individuals

shame on our police force for not letting the whereabouts of these scum bags out to the public

 

[Softus]

Slogger, this last rant of yours is all too familiar from your postings on previous topics. In fact, it's pretty much identical, but with the word "SOFTUS" stuck on the front of it.

I will not be a platform for your continuous ravings, so please go ahead and say what you like about me, my beliefs, my views, my politics, and my opinions. I can see now, albeit rather late, that it doesn't make the blindest bit of difference what I write, because you always distort it into what you want to think.

I think I might have said "goodbye" to you before; if so then I must have relented for what was clearly an ill-conceived reason. However, this is it - no more.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

those that have suffered at the hands of these murdering rapists and there families have the RIGHT to take the law into there own hands purely becasue the law has failed them

No they don't. They live in an organised society, and that means that they do not have the right to take they law into their own hands.

this is the way it is there is no one on this earth that can reason with a family that has lost a loved one to scum and tell that family to let the law handle it

Fortunately it usually is possible.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

if that was my little girl, and i was standing next to those scum i would not just stand there and say i hope you get life, i would kill them all any way i could, like all fathers/ mothers would. the last thing going through your mind is that will make me a bad as them. BAS what would you do if it was your girl, and your standing next to them ?

I don't think anybody can know for sure how they'd react, but there's a good chance that I and many other people would react the way you say you would, and the way that Slogger wants to.

But that doesn't make it right, and it doesn't mean that I should be allowed to.

However "justified" a person may be, he cannot be allowed to use violence to get what he wants because that makes him little better than the person who transgressed and used violence to get what he wanted. A society where violent revenge is allowed would in reality be a horrible place to live.

And a society where the state institutionalises the use of violence as punishment is also morally diminished, and a less civilised place to live.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

there is no law in the land or anywhere that will deny parents of retribution

Actually, there is.

you may say its illegal i says its the way justice is meant to be

No - it is illegal and it is not justice.

if you lose a loved one to these scum you have a GOD GIVEN RIGHT to take theres ( not religious myself)

No you don't.

why stand up for murdering scum why would you do that i am worried about your ill placed loyalties

I'm not standing up for them - I'm standing up for a civilised society.

and yes you are in the same boat as B.A.S as you wont advocate torture/murderous intent to these individuals

No I won't, for I will not lower myself, and society should not lower itself to their level, and adopt their standards and methods of getting what it wants.

shame on our police force for not letting the whereabouts of these scum bags out to the public

I say well done to them for doing their duty, and the job they are paid to do - upholding the law.

 

[ninebob]

Mike, I have sat out on this for days, having read this topic and the more heated one, but I have to jump in here.

Just for the record, I want to make it absolutely clear that I too oppose the death penalty. There are too many variables to prove absolute guilt, and therefore there is an unacceptable risk of innocent parties being put to death.

However, I beleive everyone has the right to have their opinion, and, within reason, to voice it. You appear to have been very keen, and able, to quote other people's posts to your advantange, to the extent where Julie has departed the forum.

I'd like you to look at this:

if that was my little girl, and i was standing next to those scum i would not just stand there and say i hope you get life, i would kill them all any way i could, like all fathers/ mothers would. the last thing going through your mind is that will make me a bad as them. BAS what would you do if it was your girl, and your standing next to them ?

I don't think anybody can know for sure how they'd react, but there's a good chance that I and many other people would react the way you say you would, and the way that Slogger wants to.

So: Markie said he would "kill them any way he could", and you said there was "a good chance" that you would react the same way.

How can you, therefore, think that someone who holds the opinion that a democratically elected government could pass a law allowing the controlled execution of such a person, be any lower than yourself?

 

[Softus]

I don't know who Mike is, ninebob, but I'd like to have a go at answering your question, on the assumption that Mike is another name for b-a-s...

Just for the record, I want to make it absolutely clear that I too oppose the death penalty. There are too many variables to prove absolute guilt, and therefore there is an unacceptable risk of innocent parties being put to death.

I completely concur, for the record.

However, I beleive everyone has the right to have their opinion, and, within reason, to voice it. You appear to have been very keen, and able, to quote other people's posts to your advantange, to the extent where Julie has departed the forum.

I don't think there's anythng wrong with that practise, nor with being keen about the use of it.

<snip>So: Markie said he would "kill them any way he could", and you said there was "a good chance" that you would react the same way.

How can you, therefore, think that someone who holds the opinion that a democratically elected government could pass a law allowing the controlled execution of such a person, be any lower than yourself?

To me the answer to this is obvious, which is why I've stuck my nose in and answered it.

b-a-s did say exactly what you've quoted him as saying, and it was absolutely honest of him to do so. However, you imply that it was hypocritical, but I don't see that it is. To summarise two of b-a-s's points:

1. Individuals have emotional reactions to events;
2. Society uses laws as constraints as to how those reactions are acted out.

I happen to share the emotional reaction of many on this topic, but I would still like it to be illegal for me to act upon my feelings. I would mark down as deluded anyone who didn't have hostile feelings towards the triple killer, but I believe, quite strongly really, that the ability to want the legal constraint is a mark of a civilised community, and not one of individual hypocrisy.

The only discernable difference of opinion between myself and b-a-s, on this topic, is that he regards people who can't make the above distinction as a lower form of life. I just think that they're people who haven't yet agreed with him, but, in time, they could. Masona is one example of someone who reports that he changed his mind as a result of calming down and reading, or re-reading, this topic.

The other reason I wanted to answer this point is that it's a bit rich to blame JulieL's departure on b-a-s, which is what you've done - she is, apparently, one of those wasn't prepared to calm down and go the distance.

 

[NigelKing]

i'm absolutely 100% with BAS on this.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

How can you, therefore, think that someone who holds the opinion that a democratically elected government could pass a law allowing the controlled execution of such a person, be any lower than yourself?

Because laws, and the rules governing peoples behaviour are not to be made on the basis of anger and emotional bias.

Just as I could understand a directly affected parent taking the law into their own hands in a moment of madness caused by anger and grief, I could understand them expressing a wish for the death penalty. But what we've had here are people who are not blinded by personal anger and grief, not in a temporarily disturbed frame of mind, calling for the state to put people death in a dispassionate way as if it was a reasonable thing to do.

It is not - it is barbaric violence, and to suggest that it is right to use violence as an official means of social control is appalling and uncivilised.


PS - Mike isn't really "another name" for me - it's my actual name - I just don't post under it.

 

[jbonding]

i think the death penalty is to good for these people, they should be locked up and the key thrown away,the problem is it isnt thrown away. life doesnt mean life so why call it life. I could fully understand someone avenging their childs death and would fully understand and support their reasons but it cant be legalised.

 

[Slogger]

since when have we lived in a civilised society

i cant see any difference in taking a peadofiles life as in stepping on a cockroach

the law is hippocritical its there to hold us back its not there to appeal to our morals we have religion for that ( not)

the law says its ok to kill an enemy in war time therefore its ok to kill the vermin that preys on our children as we at WAR with them or dont you think we are ?

civilised society hmm i think not baby puppy lets get back to reality and let the fairy tale society you live in take a back seat for a little while

HE WHO CARES WINS

 

[Richardp]

two threads the same is abit confusing! well I'd throw my hat in the ring with ban-all-sheds
but it upsets me to see the way your attacking david and julie, me and Dave have had a couple of run ins in the past but we've agreed to disagree or at least just let it wash over us, not this acrimony, this isn't a political forum but a place for general chat away from the DIY subjects and at the end of the day we may be asking for help with something from one another.
I think its wrong to take a life from anyone and we should set that example to ourselves and the killers, its not just that we would take a life but that we would want to that I find disturbing but if you attack anyone for their opinions and they quit the forum you've cut communications and what's the point in that.
someone? puts a thing at the bottom of their posts "be excellent to each other" we should take a leaf out of his book.

 

[hermes]

since when have we lived in a civilised society

Since the development of civilisation.

the law is hippocritical its there to hold us back

It's certainly there to hold you back, thank f**k.

the law says its ok to kill an enemy in war time therefore its ok to kill the vermin that preys on our children

Where does it say that?

let the fairy tale society you live in take a back seat for a little while

It's the same society you live in. You just view it differently.

 

[Slogger]

AH BUT

i am not governed by the same laws as others as i use my own idea of what is right and wrong

if i am caught then all well and good i take it on the chin but if i am not caught then halleluah strike one bad guy



the laws a joke if you follow it your a fool there is a higher law to follow and that is the path that leads to the destruction of all the peadofile gangs and murdering scum that prey on our children

who would let a law tie there hands when we all know its not doing any good

not me

WHO CARES WINS