ceiling joists not supported

[teracir]

Thanks for the repsonses,

I have been thinking about this, I have recently removed a chimney breast to loft anf installed RSJ to support the remaining chimney (all apporved by building control). On one side I could install an RSJ in the celing of ground floor and build up breeze block wall to support the ceiling joists in the pictures. but the problem is the new rsj will need to be insatlled where the old chimney breast was and into party wall. I know that you are not allowed to install RSj into chimney breast but can i install one once the chimney breast has been rmeoved even though on the otherside of the party wall is my neigbours chimney breast.

I will have to speak to my architect and get the size designed but is this feasible? This leaves the porblem on the other side where there is a partition wall but there is no supporting wall on the ground floor and a partition wall sperates the bathroom from the bedroom. I was intending to replacing the existing partition wall with 4 by 2 timbers at 300 centres. I have already installed additional noggings on ground floor ceiling to support extra weight.

 

[teracir]

guys,


Any further inputs would be appriciated???????

 

[big-all]

the trouble you have is we dont know if transfering the load will be acceptable
perhaps if you tell us all the joist sizes unsupported spans and centres between joists off all floors concerned
we can then hazzard a guess but only a guess as there as so many other factors that can effect the outcome

 

[alittlerespect]

Hi!

Blagard has commented about the hanging frames that you have coming down from the loft space - Not ideal but it is a means to an end. The hanging frame will just about support the ceiling joists, but you wouldn't want to go putting any load on top of the ceiling joists (just in case you were considering this as an option.

You could theorectically live with what you've got, if that was not so the ceiling would have been down years ago. However, if you wish to use the loft space then you would need to consider installing the joists that I have previously mentioned, using the existing stud wall as a support at mid -span.

You could also take out one of the studs to create a wider opening - use a 4" x 4" sawn timber as a lintel and then add a 4x2 either side to support the new timber and screw fix in place. once down cut out the section of sole plate and you have your opening.

Regards

 

[Blagard]

Blagard has commented about the hanging frames that you have coming down from the loft space - Not ideal but it is a means to an end. The hanging frame will just about support the ceiling joists, but you wouldn't want to go putting any load on top of the ceiling joists (just in case you were considering this as an option.

Ouch! - It was a little jest about the weird nature of the construction generally.

The pitched roof rafters and purlins should on no account be used to suppliment ceiling joist support. That collared roof/truss is there to give support to the purlins. Not the ceiling joist.

 

[alittlerespect]

Hi Blagard

Take credit where credit is due!

There is no way those struts were put in to support the purlin's, that would be asking for trouble as the load from the purlins would be transferred to the already crap ceiling joists!

Regards

 

[Blagard]

There is no way those struts were put in to support the purlin's

Think of the double rafters, collar, struts and the ceiling joists (only the ones connected to struts) as one structure with pinned joints. You have a basic but rather poorly made truss. This does provide some support to the purlins, but only if all the connections are sound.

I was not trying to suggest they are struts such as you often see off ceiling binders or internal walls to purlins.

Simple stand alone struts off those ceiling joists would, I totally agree, be useless to support the purlins.

Obviously the whole lot has stood the test of time but at least we are all agreed it is an example of some bad building practice