I hate places like that. Also hate replacing fuses and not realising a big bank of florries have been left on that can make ya jump
CHANGING A DOMESTIC FUSE BOARD
- Thread starter markymark2406
- Start date
I hate places like that. Also hate replacing fuses and not realising a big bank of florries have been left on that can make ya jump
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It is not illegal to remove the cutout fuse. However the cutout fuse is part of the DNO's equipment, not yours; none of the DNOs permit anyone (including electricians) to pull their cutout fuse. In legal terms, in pulling the fuse, you are committing a trespass.
If it were illegal, there wouldn't be many electricians around — they'd all be locked up!
This is why I have come to worship the lovely MCB.
Beats using a rusty nail or a strand of stripped copper
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OK searching through this forum I find a number of threads about "pulling the main fuse" one of which is ongoing and about halfway down page 1 of this forum.
Despite the dangers it seems that some still think it is OK as they are consider themselves competent persons!
1/
It is NOT your property or the property of the building owner. Unless the owner of the main fuse has notified you in writing that you can withdraw and replace it you CANNOT.
2/
As it is their property they decide under the Electricity at Work Regulations who is competent to work on their equipment
(In reality in a DNO a competent person is NOT allowed to do anything on the live system, we have a number of levels of "Authorised Persons" above that)
3/
By withdrawing the fuse you may expose live terminals that are protected at s substation by large fuses (up to 630A). Show me where anyone (apart from trained DNO staff) is allowed to work in the vicinity of exposed live terminal.
4/
Yes it is rare for a prosecution unless something goes wrong, in that case the HSE will (and has) do the prosecuting.
5/
However DNO staff have, under the ESQCR Regs, the power to disconnect any installation they consider unsafe.
We would also do it if we think illegal abstraction has or may take place
(I have attended sites where electrical contractors have broken seals during rewires of "social" housing, tenants have subsequently stolen electricity)
Believe me I, for one, will not hesitate to disconnect if I find these situations, of course the Electrical Contractor might end up with some explaining to do to the customer if that happens!
(the last guy I disconnected on safety grounds illegally reconnected the supply, we then cut it outside. It cost him about £1000 to get it reconnected)
People have DIED by "competent" electricians making connections by cutting seals.
Do YOU want to be responsible for that!!
(DNO engineer trained and authorised to operate up to 33kV country wide)
Despite the dangers it seems that some still think it is OK as they are consider themselves competent persons!
1/
It is NOT your property or the property of the building owner. Unless the owner of the main fuse has notified you in writing that you can withdraw and replace it you CANNOT.
2/
As it is their property they decide under the Electricity at Work Regulations who is competent to work on their equipment
(In reality in a DNO a competent person is NOT allowed to do anything on the live system, we have a number of levels of "Authorised Persons" above that)
3/
By withdrawing the fuse you may expose live terminals that are protected at s substation by large fuses (up to 630A). Show me where anyone (apart from trained DNO staff) is allowed to work in the vicinity of exposed live terminal.
4/
Yes it is rare for a prosecution unless something goes wrong, in that case the HSE will (and has) do the prosecuting.
5/
However DNO staff have, under the ESQCR Regs, the power to disconnect any installation they consider unsafe.
We would also do it if we think illegal abstraction has or may take place
(I have attended sites where electrical contractors have broken seals during rewires of "social" housing, tenants have subsequently stolen electricity)
Believe me I, for one, will not hesitate to disconnect if I find these situations, of course the Electrical Contractor might end up with some explaining to do to the customer if that happens!
(the last guy I disconnected on safety grounds illegally reconnected the supply, we then cut it outside. It cost him about £1000 to get it reconnected)
People have DIED by "competent" electricians making connections by cutting seals.
Do YOU want to be responsible for that!!
(DNO engineer trained and authorised to operate up to 33kV country wide)
totally correct its an offence to tamper with the equipment supplied by the network, this does include the service fuse.
I should also point out that all sealing pliers have a unique ID so if you just happen to acquire some seals (and there are a number of different designs and DNOs can find out who uses what) and crimp them, We can easily tell if they have been sealed by an authorised person.
While I agree with most of what you've said, I think you'd be hard pushed to take an electrical contractor to court in the scenario you describe. Exactly how would he/she cutting the seal make him/her responsible for the subsequent theft of electricity? Are you trying to tell me that the housing client who stole the electricity would not have been able to remove the seal themselves?
To the OP,
Dont pull the fuse, it might be the last thing you ever do. I would suggest that you don't even attempt the job you mention, IMHO you should get a registered electrician to do this work for you.
To the eminently qualified DNO engineer,
Whilst i am not in disagreement with you, could you satisfy my curiosity by answering the following, please?
How does a DNO engineer prove who removed a seal? Especially on external meter boxes that are un-protected.
Why do the DNOs not secure their own fuse with something more substantial than a bit of wire and lead?
Why do the DNO employ people to change service heads who will then fail to check that the supplied earthing system is within specified parameters?
Where do the DNO inform the customer that it is illegal for them to remove the fuse? (yes, most electricians would know this, but how does joe public?)
Do the DNOs have records of what seals are fitted and when so in the event of a seal being absent they can tell when it was removed?
Have you, personally, had a situation where you have disconnected a supply for a feeling that abstraction 'may' take place? Maybe you didn't like the look of the occupants of a house, did they have dreadlocks, a scruffy dog or a particular skin tone? On what grounds do you feel justified to remove someones ability to light, heat and cook in their house where there is no actual evidence that an offence is about to take place?
Dont pull the fuse, it might be the last thing you ever do. I would suggest that you don't even attempt the job you mention, IMHO you should get a registered electrician to do this work for you.
To the eminently qualified DNO engineer,
Whilst i am not in disagreement with you, could you satisfy my curiosity by answering the following, please?
How does a DNO engineer prove who removed a seal? Especially on external meter boxes that are un-protected.
Why do the DNOs not secure their own fuse with something more substantial than a bit of wire and lead?
Why do the DNO employ people to change service heads who will then fail to check that the supplied earthing system is within specified parameters?
Where do the DNO inform the customer that it is illegal for them to remove the fuse? (yes, most electricians would know this, but how does joe public?)
Do the DNOs have records of what seals are fitted and when so in the event of a seal being absent they can tell when it was removed?
Have you, personally, had a situation where you have disconnected a supply for a feeling that abstraction 'may' take place? Maybe you didn't like the look of the occupants of a house, did they have dreadlocks, a scruffy dog or a particular skin tone? On what grounds do you feel justified to remove someones ability to light, heat and cook in their house where there is no actual evidence that an offence is about to take place?
I think you will find that the terms and conditions of most energy suppliers place the onus on the customer to ensure their equipment is undamaged. For example EON
8 Other charges
We may charge you our reasonable costs if:
- you damage our equipment or equipment provided by your network operator(s) unless this damage could not have reasonably been prevented;
- you fail to take reasonable steps to protect our equipment or equipment provided by your network operator(s);
Whether the customer points them in the direction of the electrician is up to them.
As a matter of course whenever I do anywork on a house I always check the seal(s) and if not in place will formally advice the client in writing before starting any work - also take photographs to cover myself.
My post was actually in reply to westie101, although I'm not sure how what you've just said disproves the point I was making...?
I know a letting agent who takes photos of the meter readings and seals each time a new tenant moves in. The started doing it with polariod cameras after a tenant removed the seal to by pass the meter and then tried to claim in court there never had been a seal.
The meter and cut out in my mother in laws house had no seals and when I informed the DNO about it prior to installing storage heaters the DNO were not in the least bothered. I seem to recall the technician who came to fit the Off-Peak meter even asked if I wanted a seal fitted or was there more work to be done. But that was back in the early 1980's
Ok hands up who here has ever been reported got convicted or been imprisoned for pulling a service fuse ?
Anybody ?
Thought not
Anybody ?
Thought not
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