Choiceof CU

[JohnW2]

The discussions which resulted in my recent thread about choice of fire alarms also strayed onto the topic of ‘choice of CUs’, so I’ll be interested to hear thoughts about that.

A few decades ago, I had some definite views in relation to this question but, in view of the (positive and negative) comments I’ve seen in more recent times, I’m no longer at all sure!

I would think that, in most senses, the actual ‘CU’ (the enclosure) is neither here nor there. There was a time when ‘enough height’ for RCBOs was a potential issue. However, not only are many modern CUs high enough to accommodate even ‘traditional’ RCBOs, but ‘’compact’’ RCBOs (no taller than an MCB) are becoming increasingly common. It would therefore seem that the choice now really comes down to the (price and) reliability of ‘devices’, predominantly RCBOs -and perhaps (if it’s an issue) their ‘ease of installation’.

Looking, for a start, at the six brands offered by TLC (Hager, BG, Contactum, MK, Fusebox and Wylex), there really is not a lot to choose between them in terms of prices of RCBOs (and SPDs), with Hager being a little more expensive than the others.

One consideration for some users is whether or not a 25 A RCBO is available for the CU. TLC only offer them for Contactum and Fusebox, but ones are available for Hager and Wylex (but seemingly not MK or Wylex) from elsewhere - so maybe some people would (if they were worried about ‘mixing devices’) want to steer clear of MK and Wylex for that reason.

I fear that it’s probably largely down to personal preferences, anecdotal experiences and ‘what I’ve always done’, but I would be interested to hear what people think about this question, particularly in relation to reliability (and, perhaps ‘ease of installation’), since I can see the prices for myself.

Many thanks for any insights that I can pass on.

Kind Regards, John

 

[blup]

Schneider and Hager seem to be well regarded by the pro's. I have recently had a Wylex fitted (populated by RCBO's), which all seemed robust. I was a little peeved by the sparky fitting rubber grommets at the knockouts. Apparently that is acceptable, although I would have preferred plastic grommets for a tighter fit. Fusebox CU's were heavily promoted by YT spark's a few years, they seem to be easy to work on, but I haven't seen any wholly objective reviews. As you imply it is as much about what the electrician is comfortable working on as price and perceived quality.

 

[AndyPRK]

I’m not so sure about Hager after the whole AFDD fascio

Verso anyone ?

 

[sparkwright]

I think whether a 45amp mcb or rcbo is available could also tip the balance.

Whether the main switch is on the left or right is sometimes an issue when replacing an existing board.

Lewden is often overlooked.

Have recently fitted a Click one - Lots of space to tuck wires behind the breakers.

 

[Notch7]

British General

You know it makes sense

 

[flameport]

For all of them, whether the RCBOs have a switched neutral and are considered as bidirectional matters, otherwise you will be stuffed when it comes to installing EV charging, solar or battery storage systems.

Hager are among the cheapest for RCBOs now, however their AFDD offering has concerning attributes where the firmware is field upgradeable, yet little to no info as to when or why, and who will be liable in the event it is or is not upgraded, and who exactly is supposed to check whether it needs upgrading or not. Their AFDDs are also incompatible with all but their latest consumer units, despite physically fitting into older ones.

Wylex / Crabtree are a middle price, and their RCBOs have been Type A for at least 15 years already. Mechanical compatibility with older Wylex boards is an issue due to their mixture of busbar styles, which is why they still make the 'tall' RCBOs for those.

BG tend to have a poor reputation but that's mainly because their products are often installed by those who should not be doing any electrical work, partially due to their massive presence in the likes of Screwfix. They are not the best but certainly nothing wrong with them if installed properly.

MK are just rebadged items from some other manufacturer, and have been for literally decades. The name means nothing and due to them switching manufacturers multiple times, compatibility with older consumer units is none at all.

Fusebox are made in a country far away and is basically another rebadging exercise, they have also had various problems with their devices where a substantial amount were failing and then recalled in a covered up deny everything fashion. Popular with many due to social media types and giving away free pink coloured merchandise with every purchase to those who are impressed by such things.

 

[JohnW2]

I think whether a 45amp mcb or rcbo is available could also tip the balance.

Thanks for your thoughts. Yes, that might be a consideration. However, I think that there are 45 A and/or 50A MCBs available for virtually all of them, and I think that the same may well be true of RCBOs (I think it is true of allsix brands I mentions).

Whether the main switch is on the left or right is sometimes an issue when replacing an existing board.

Again, that may occasionally be an issue. The great majority seem to 'come with' the switch on the right (all but MK in the six I mentioned ND, although I think one could usually change that (since the bus bars of all-RCBO CUs are generally 'simpleand symettrical) that would probably result in the need to wire the Main Switch with 'opposite polarity' to that indicated on its markings.

Lewden is often overlooked.

I, for one, certainly "overlook" it, since I don't think it's offered by any of the suppliers I usually use!

Have recently fitted a Click one - Lots of space to tuck wires behind the breakers.

The impression I get is that most of today's CU have "lots of space".

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Schneider and Hager seem to be well regarded by the pro's.

They do - although of the various suppliers I usually look to, I think that Screfix are the only one that routinely offers any Schneider products,and their RCBOs are (at least from Screwfix) very expensive - 2-3 times the price of all the other brands I mentioned.

I have recently had a Wylex fitted (populated by RCBO's), which all seemed robust.

Good to here. In the (relatively distant!) past, I always used MK or Wylex, both of which I was perfectly happy with - but, as I said, 'times have changed' and I'm no longer sure which to suggest/recommend!

Fusebox CU's were heavily promoted by YT spark's a few years, they seem to be easy to work on, but I haven't seen any wholly objective reviews.

Same here. I'm certainly heard nothing 'specifically bad' about them.

As you imply it is as much about what the electrician is comfortable working on as price and perceived quality.

Indeed - I think that's probably 90%+ of the basis of most decisions.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

For all of them, whether the RCBOs have a switched neutral and are considered as bidirectional matters ...

Needless to say, none of the 'standard' RCBOs offered satisfy either of those requirements, but I think that they all offer devices which do satisfy them.

, otherwise you will be stuffed when it comes to installing EV charging, solar or battery storage systems.

True - but, as above, I think that suitable devices are available for most CUs.

In any event, I think something that often goes overlooked in discussions about EV charging is that a substantial proportion of properties will never be able to have it unless (as would be required for the property which started the discussion I had) someone finds a way to get cables over/under a pavement and ensure that a parking space in front of the property is always available when required!

Hager are among the cheapest for RCBOs now

From where? Per the TLC prices I was looking at, Hager were (slightly) the most expensive of all six.

.... however their AFDD offering has concerning attributes where the firmware is field upgradeable, yet little to no info as to when or why, and who will be liable in the event it is or is not upgraded, and who exactly is supposed to check whether it needs upgrading or not. Their AFDDs are also incompatible with all but their latest consumer units, despite physically fitting into older ones.

I suspect that it will be a long time, quite probably 'beyond my days', before we see AFDDs being routinely installed in domestic installations - not the least (at present) because of the price (not to mention what many may regard as the questionable 'need for'/'value of' such devices).

Wylex / Crabtree are a middle price, and their RCBOs have been Type A for at least 15 years already. Mechanical compatibility with older Wylex boards is an issue due to their mixture of busbar styles, which is why they still make the 'tall' RCBOs for those.

Fair enough. It seems that most suppliers are no longer offering Type AC RCBOs for most brands, even if they are still being manufactured.

BG tend to have a poor reputation ....

A poor reputation for what, I wonder? Short of mechanical problem with the enclosure, the only sorts of likel 'detectable' forms of 'failure' I can think of are thermal damage to devices (usually due to poor installation) and malfunction of the residual current functionality of RCDs and RCBOs (which can be detected by testing). Are there any other common types of 'failure'?

.... but that's mainly because their products are often installed by those who should not be doing any electrical work, partially due to their massive presence in the likes of Screwfix.

Possibly. In terms of the 'why', you;'re possibly right, but most suppliers offer plenty of BG products and, seemingly a bit ironically, Screwfix offer a good few Schneider products, a brand which I suspect is very rarely used by "those who should not be doing any electrical work"!

They are not the best but certainly nothing wrong with them if installed properly.

Thanks for that insight.

MK are just rebadged items from some other manufacturer, and have been for literally decades. The name means nothing and due to them switching manufacturers multiple times, compatibility with older consumer units is none at all.

All true, I'm sure, but I don't think that backward comparability (or the lack of it) is much of an issue. Do you feel that there is anything 'wrong' with current MK products?

Fusebox are made in a country far away and is basically another rebadging exercise,

Again, true, but we are very used to the concept of electrical and electronic products (plus a lot else) being unmanufactured in "a country far away" - and that is, in itself, not necessarily a problem. For example, a country which is capable of getting samples back from the moon using an unmanned vehicle is clearly not 'technologically incompetent" - i.e. "they can/could 'do it well' if they want to"

they have also had various problems with their devices where a substantial amount were failing and then recalled in a covered up deny everything fashion.

The 'cover up' is not good, but, over the years and decades a good few of the major manufacturers have had problems with their devices leading to recalls - so I'm not sure one can necessarily read a lot into that (in terms of the present and future).

Popular with many due to social media types and giving away free pink coloured merchandise with every purchase to those who are impressed by such things.

... but, again, do you think there is anything particularly 'wrong' with the products currently being supplied (or are you perhaps still 'suspicious' because of historical events?).

I suppose that the crucial "$64,000 Question" is which brand you usually install (or,, at least, recommend), and why?

Kind Regards, John

 

[justigator]

I had some excellent electricians replace my old CU with an all-RCBO one four years ago and they installed one from Lewden - of which I had at the time never heard. All well since.

 

[JohnW2]

I had some excellent electricians replace my old CU with an all-RCBO one four years ago and they installed one from Lewden - of which I had at the time never heard. All well since.

Thanks. I have heard of them, but have never paid any attention to them, and have never seen or dealt with one - so I'll have a look (I think Screwfix do some).

 

[Murdochcat]

Don’t buy on price alone

Hager for good quality and very reliable AND available from many outkets

Fusebox for lower price point but very good products AND available from many outlets

Never had a problem with either of these

Used to fit Lewden but they are not as good as Fusebox and many have square knockouts rather than round

 

[JohnW2]

Don’t buy on price alone

I wouldn't, hence my questions. In particular, I certainly wouldn't buy expensive ones in the belief that "expensive means good"!

Hager for good quality and very reliable AND available from many outkets
Fusebox for lower price point but very good products AND available from many outlets
Never had a problem with either of these

Thanks. That's useful information ..

Used to fit Lewden but they are not as good as Fusebox and many have square knockouts rather than round

Thanks again. That's also worth knowing (not that I've ever really known anything about Lewden).

Kind Regards, John

 

[trojanhawrs]

Schneider easy9s are nice looking boards and the magnetic flip down cover gives a premium feel if you like that sort of thing. It does mean you need a bit more space to install it if you're close to obstructions though as it's the entire lid that's hinged. My local CEF stocks them.
I've fitted a couple of the contactum flush mount boards, I rate them if you're first fixing in stud walls. Nice to be able to bring the cables into an empty box. Believe hager do flush boards too but I think they're deeper, might struggle to get much lagging behind them if it's an external wall.
I haven't had any issues with fusebox, feels solid, plenty space and I prefer the rounded edges.
Fitted a lot of proteus random sub-boards as they do all the small way boards and every breaker under the sun

 

[flameport]

From where? Per the TLC prices I was looking at, Hager were (slightly) the most expensive of all six.

Hager RCBO's

Buy online Hager RCBO's at Edwardes with 24 hour delivery.

www.edwardes.co.uk