Combi boiler upgrade advice

[dtokez]

well, had a man around today to check the old one old, he did some poking around and said we need a new one.

Fired it up and seemed ok but a seal or something has now blown and as soon as I put any pressure in the system at all, it comes straight back out again!

He thinks Valliant are the best boilers, and has quoted approx £1800 for a new system fitted (28kw i think) or £700 to fit if I supply the hardware. He will need to run a line to the drain for the condensing I guess, and move the flue as its currently right outside the back door.

What do you guys think to that?

 

[easyas123Viessmann]

Where does it come out from? Vaillant is my second choice. Very good boilers. Weather comp isn't to good but most installers will not have heard of it. If they have probably won't understand it. If you have time to investigate weather comp you may like to look at the Viessmann 200. If it's not of interest then the Vaillant is much closer to being as good. The Viessmann heat exchanger makes it a first choice for me. 1800 for a combie swap sounds a little rich. But is the work you listed all he is doing? Does the price include vat.

 

[transam]

Veissmann dunno which model it is , but they make a virtual all rubber plastic combi apart from the heat exchanger & pump u will not find any metal , apparently they do not sell that model in deutchland , just dump there carp over here allegedley ? may be ?

mind u if they used an Askoll pump they could have only the heat exc as metal ?? might save em a few quid in manufacturing costs ??

afaik they use service agents as well , been a few reports of them renaging on warrantys of late

price of spares well

 

[easyas123Viessmann]

Repeating rumor is not a substitute for knowledge. I think you are talking about the wb1a that was released for the UK. The current 100 is a near perfect boiler surpassed only by the 200 in the UK. Unfortunately the 300 is no longer available in the UK. As for there after sales, when I worked for them there was no hesitation to help the home owner to rectify the installation defects of the feckless installers that seem to be free to claim to be heating engineers in the UK. I recall one boiler with the condense running the full length of his garage on the out side and connecting to his rainwater down pipe. The pipe became blocked causing water to back up into the heat exchanger and filling the boiler with water. A new pcb, fan, front and rear combustion chamber insulation panels, spark generator and gas valve later his boiler was back working. I even modified the condense pipework for him. Not bad service. The boiler is working to this day and I service it annually. I no longer work for Viessmann but continue to instal these boilers. I will instal any boiler a customer requests but most come to me for Viessmann boilers because they have researched boilers and conclude for themselves that they are the best option. A lot of my customers are European and are aware of Viessmann long standing excellence in the heating market. If you study heating and stop listening to second hand Tittle tattle you could make an informed comment. I often wonder how this forum is perceived by the non installer seeking advice and having to tolerate the constant bickering of installers who fail to address there questions and instead attack the advice of others.

 

[doitall]

I remember Viessmann dumping the make for the uk 100 on the market.

Biggest heap of **** ever made.

Why should we trust them on your say so.

 

[easyas123Viessmann]

Not on my say so. Look at them for yourself. I can only say what I have experienced. If you have your own first hand experience I can't argue. But all I hear is second hand rumor. I mainly repair boilers and judge them on their ease to access and change components as well as there overall build quality. Even the wb1a was easy to work on and diagnosis was a synch. My obsession with the 200 is based on my experience and study of weather compensation combined with ease of diagnosis and easy exchange of components on this boiler.
The use of bad language only reinforces the poor image of the installer in the eyes of the customer and gains no respect from anyone.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Oh Jesus.

 

[easyas123Viessmann]

I rest my case.

 

[doitall]

Not on my say so. Look at them for yourself. I can only say what I have experienced. If you have your own first hand experience I can't argue. But all I hear is second hand rumor. I mainly repair boilers and judge them on their ease to access and change components as well as there overall build quality. Even the wb1a was easy to work on and diagnosis was a synch. My obsession with the 200 is based on my experience and study of weather compensation combined with ease of diagnosis and easy exchange of components on this boiler.
The use of bad language only reinforces the poor image of the installer in the eyes of the customer and gains no respect from anyone.

If they was any good you'd be out of work. Perhaps you should look at a really good boiler like the Atmos and Intergas.

 

[Dan Robinson]

I rest my case.

You had a case?

All I saw was piffle from a sales brochure.

And yes I have experience with Viessmann, and no I don't think they are that bad. But christ on a stick - change the record. It's boring.

 

[dtokez]

Oh dear what have I started

Where does it come out from? Vaillant is my second choice. Very good boilers. Weather comp isn't to good but most installers will not have heard of it. If they have probably won't understand it. If you have time to investigate weather comp you may like to look at the Viessmann 200. If it's not of interest then the Vaillant is much closer to being as good. The Viessmann heat exchanger makes it a first choice for me. 1800 for a combie swap sounds a little rich. But is the work you listed all he is doing? Does the price include vat.

That was a rough quote I think, he said he would get back to us with a more official one. I think that is all the work that needs doing. Although the current boiler is so close to the back door frame that I could not really box it in properly so I would like to make sure the next one has enough space to run a batten down the wall. But I guess it should be smaller anyway so Hopefully use the same flue hole.

I'm getting a bit confused with the options out there. I'm not 100% on the weather comp, but if it't not much more money I'd probably go for it. Out of the Worcester and the Valliant stuff that I have been looking at, it appears the fancy controllers /timers are located on the boiler itself, and I would need to get a room stat also?

Does the condensing output needs to be plumed to the drain? or can it just run off onto dirt etc?

What system would you guys recommend if I asked you to fit that ticks my boxes?

28kW, compact, poss weather comp, different temperatures for different times is a must.

Thanks all

 

[Dan Robinson]

Weather comp is easy, but you need to be insulated well and with few drafts.

Different temps and different times is easy peasy regardless.


Out of Worcester or Vaillant I would go Vaillant.

Condensate has to go to a drain OR soakaway. But I and everyone here will strongly recommend an internal drain.

Output depends on needs. Your house probably only needs 7 - 10 kW for heat, so the hot water requirement is paramount. 24kW is fine for showers. Baths take a little while to fill. 28kW has 25%ish more hot water through put and a slight loss of heating efficiency over the year. So slightly quicker baths.

Anything more for your house is daft.


Arguments between installer preferences aside, Vaillant, Viessmann Intergas/Atmos or Atag would suit you equally well if installed as per the book.

Intergas/Atmos are far far more robust. Vaillant and Viessmann are very similar. Veissmann's HEX is better than Vaillant's. Vaillant's hydraulic assembly is better than Veissmann's.

Worcester are OK boilers, but you are paying for an after sales service that frankly you shouldn't need if installed and maintained properly.

 

[easyas123Viessmann]

Weather comp is not dependent on good insulation but economy is. If you want different temp at different times the viessmann weather comp doesn't do it. A programmable room stat with a constant temperature output however will. You should consider if that is actually what you want. It's hard if you haven't experienced weather comp for your self. My own home is controlled with a programmable room stat. Having seen the satisfaction level of customers in all types of homes with weather comp I will replace my own boiler with a weather comp model when it goes. The problem is i have a viessmann and it will last a very long time.

 

[dtokez]

thanks guys. Well he has come back with £1950 for a Worcester Greenstar 29cdi and timer + flue parts.

Sounds a little steep to me really as I have just seen this model for about 1k?

 

[dtokez]

guys, what kind of soak-away would be needed for the condensing output? I thought it would just be pure water, or is there something harmful?