Combined T&P relief valve

[stardanny]

I've seen the website, in english lan. It say....

2. Cauldron assembly in closed system.


This is not consistent with the valid PN-91/B-02413 standard for solid fuel boilers. According to the standard, a compensatory vessel is required.

This mean it need a feed and expan tank. Therefore a sealed system can't be used.

The standard is for Poland.

 

[Nordio]

according to the standard required compensatory vessel

Thats an expansion vessel as commonly used on heating systems.
Thats what my installation manual shows.

My system has a F&E tank anyway.
Will the T&P work or will it explode with the force of five hiroshima bombs?

 

[transam]

No it will not explode , it would appear that there is some in-consistency with the actual translation of Polish to English ??? technically if these boiler's are officially imported into the U.K , they should legally come with English instruction's relevant to our national standard's , general rule of thumb is solid fuel boiler's , not sealed system's , I might be wrong , if some one is sealing solid fuel boiler's as per your previous post , & in particular for client's or customer's , let's hope they have got it right ????

 

[stardanny]

according to the standard required compensatory vessel

Thats an expansion vessel as commonly used on heating systems.
Thats what my installation manual shows.

My system has a F&E tank anyway.
Will the T&P work or will it explode with the force of five hiroshima bombs?

Compensatory mean recompense ( replacing water lost by other mean ).
All I say is solid fuel boiler is not suitable for sealed system. Parkray solid fuel boiler state "sealed system must not be used".

As long as boiler has it own vent and feed direct to tank, it will be ok, but you still need gravity primary / heatsink and neutralizer if sharing with oil boiler.

Other may know.

 

[Biggles..]

the regulatory body state solid fuel appliances are not suitable for sealed systems,end of.

to be honest without a ce mark and it being on heatas list it wouldnt be fitted by any respected or registered engineer anyway,

Still a bodge.

 

[Nordio]

I've just had a look at the Hetas list.
There's only a few of the large batch fed boilers listed.

It's a poor list if an installer has to look to this in making his decision on which batch fed boiler to install.
But then with these european boilers with efficiencies 80%> why would they need hetas approval?

How much does it cost a boiler manufacturer to join this list?
Not cheap I would suspect and then the cost is passed unto the customer as with all regulations.

Take for example this company...
http://www.froeling.com/en/products/firewood/fhg_turbo_eco.html
No mention on the Hetas list.
An installer near my area fits them. (On sealed systems btw)
I was quoted £20k for their gasifying wood boiler installation.
Top quality stuff but just too expensive.

 

[transam]

Froeling , German wood pellet burner (solid fuel) , sealed system ??? there is reference very loosely to expansion vessels or some thing like that ??? possibly sealed system ??? I would need to see some more technical installation instruction's ??? but you may , have a point ????

There is a commercial , wood pellet , solid fuel boiler near to here , which I have been invited to look at , I have yet to take up the offer , your post has prompted me to take the offer up , rumour has it ????? it has been sealed ?????? , but than again ?????

 

[Onetap]

T&P relief valves are used on unvented water heaters. The valve would operate in the event of uncontrolled heat input, typically the immersion heater thermostat failing ON. The valve would dump the hot water to dissipate the heat, but this is replaced with cold water from the mains. The valve cycles continuously like this whilst the heat input remains on.

Your proposal would dump the hot water until the system was drained below the level of the T&PRV bulb. It would probably then stop working as a TRV.

The neutralizer is intended to stop nuisance circulation, through the oil boiler when the wood burner is on and vice versa. There can be a huge heat loss through a non-firing boiler by this means. There are other means of avoiding it. NRVs are not one of those means.

A solid fuel boiler with no open vent is a complete non-starter. Don't even think about it.

PS I've just re-read your posts. This is either an April fool, or you have no idea what you're doing, probably the latter. I'd suggest you employ someone with the necessary technical competence.

Most batch fed boiler will burn until the wood is consumed. Because of this, they are often used in conjunction with a big thermal store. You could reduce the heat output by throttling the air supply, but the hot fuel will then generate huge concentrations of toxic and flammable (and potentially explosive) gases, including CO.

 

[Onetap]

There is a commercial , wood pellet , solid fuel boiler near to here , which I have been invited to look at , I have yet to take up the offer , your post has prompted me to take the offer up , rumour has it ????? it has been sealed ?????? , but than again ?????

It's a wood pellet boiler, not a batch fed log burner. You can stop the supply of fuel and so the heat input in the event of it overheating, as you can with a gas or oil boiler.

With a log burner you coukld only stop the supply of air, but it then becomes a CO generator, so it is best to let it burn to the end and have provision for dissipating the heat, i.e., an open vent and a F&E tank.

 

[Nordio]

Your advice onetap is about as useful as listening to some drunk down the pub.
I prefer to listen to people who are installing these devices and have the experience.
You stick to the office job and looking up yer online bs bullshit.

How should I pressure test my pipe work?
An air test about 20 bar should do eh?

I'd suggest you employ someone with the necessary technical competence.

That obviously rules you out. LOL

 

[Onetap]

Your advice onetap is about as useful as listening to some drunk down the pub.
I prefer to listen to people who are installing these devices and have the experience.
You stick to the office job and looking up yer online bs bulls**t.

Thanks for that.
Now lets see; I have HND, BSc in Mechanical Engineering. I have about 30 years experience in Building Services engineering, both office and site based. I have an unvented ticket. I HAVE completed the HETAS Engineer's course.

You?

This is a bit like the X-factor, with the parade of deluded idiots who think they can sing. The real trained singers don't appear because they'd expect to be paid for their skills. The deluded idiots get the hump with Cowell when he tells them they can't sing.

 

[Nordio]

OK MR HND, BSc in Mechanical Engineering aka onetap.
I don't have your qualifications. I'm a car/lorry mechanic. (Wiper blade changer to some)

Why do you think t&P valves are only installed on unvented cylinders?

And why do you think this........

Your proposal would dump the hot water until the system was drained below the level of the T&PRV bulb

Just how can the system drain when the cold feed is supplying cold water?
This valve can open on temperature rise. Correct?

 

[Onetap]

How should I pressure test my pipe work?
An air test about 20 bar should do eh?

I'd suggest you employ someone with the necessary technical competence.

That obviously rules you out. LOL

Oh, I see.
You're the one that bought a non-approved Woodwarm boiler.

You test your pipes anyway you like, you seem determined to commit suicide by plumbing.

I have lots of technical expertise in this area but I don't work for free so that does rule me out. Sorry you don't like my opinions, but that's just too bad. I'm not often wrong. You should stick to servicing cars.

40kW boiler? No thermal store?
I will give you a clue; part-load conditions.

 

[tripty]

I have lots of technical expertise in this area but I don't work for free so that does rule me out. Sorry you don't like my opinions, but that's just too bad. I'm not often wrong. You should stick to servicing cars.

Why are you bothering to post on this forum then?

If you believe/know what the op is suggesting is dangerous then although commendable you shouldn't be so snotty about it. He is more likely to take note of what you have to say if you are civil.

Also, don't start bragging about what quals you may/may not have it just makes you seem like a total fat head.

 

[tamz]

You seem to have your mind set on what you want to do so why ask for advise if you won't listen. Some good points have been raised.
Just do what you think right. Who gives a fk