Commons Statement on Hillsborough

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How many ticketless fans were in the stadium, contributing to events ? Or are Liverpool fans not prepared to stand up and be counted ?
 
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How many ticketless fans were in the stadium, contributing to events ? Or are Liverpool fans not prepared to stand up and be counted ?

You just don't get it do you.
The larger Liverpool contingent were given the smaller, older end of the ground, exactly the same as the previous year when liverpool secretary Peter Robinson complained bitterly about it on safety grounds.
Having been delayed by traffic hold ups and with hardly any effective crowd control outside, the police opened a gate to allow supporters in to try to avoid a serious problem.
Inside the gate there was again no crowd control and no one directing fans in. The fans went to the central pens where the crushing happened. There is no way those fans at the back realised what was happening at the front.
There were other pens that weren't nearly as full, but no one directing people there.
As the tragedy unfolded there were people who could have been saved with oxygen, but were denied help because the police told the ambulance drivers to stay off the pitch because "they" the fans were still "fighting" as in rioting.
Then they lied to protect themselves and in the process smeared the name of liverpool victims, fans and the city itself.
The infamous phrase "self pity city" and others were born out of this tragedy and the unwillingness of the Hillsborough families to accept the injustice.
There will have been some Liverpool fans bunking in, I'm sure some Forest fans did as well. Same as any other team in a big game. So what???
If you still don't understand....p*ss off.
 
How many ticketless fans were in the stadium, contributing to events ? Or are Liverpool fans not prepared to stand up and be counted ?

Not many....as the police stopped every single coach on the way to the ground and asked to see all tickets, also stopped cars and most fans walking to the ground......educate yourself first before making stupid comments like that.
 
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Not many....as the police stopped every single coach on the way to the ground and asked to see all tickets, also stopped cars and most fans walking to the ground......educate yourself first before making stupid comments like that.

Is that true?

If so it would have taken a monumental effort and would have taken a very long time indeed.
 
A point being missed by those who say it happened 20 years ago, so move on.

The cover up was being continued until last week. Some of those who are involved in the cover up are still serving, some in senior positions.

As for the Sun, 'investigative' journalism ? That stable of papers can dig up info when it wants.

I remember Jasper Carrott's joke about Sun Readers - a survey of Sun readers showed 50% thought it supported Labour, and the other 50% thought it was a newspaper
 
Several respondents to my posts resorting to insults and tantrums, shows how mature they are, what a surprise they are in the "it's the authorities fault" camp, children have no sense of responsibility.

Has a single Liverpool fan who was in the ground without a ticket , that day came forward to say "I should not have been there? "
Hmmmmmmmm
Nuff said.

It's the polices fault for not starting a riot by turning them away!

People at the back will always squash in if they can, they have no way of knowing what is happening at the front. To blame them when they have been directed onto the terraces is stupid.

Why, are they not adults, do they not have a sense of social responsibility?

Of course if they are nothing more than stupid animals, of course it's the fault of the handlers, the police.

Are you comparing Liverpool fans to stupid animals?


Would YOU push at the back of the crowd, would YOU give no thought to who might be up front, children, elderly, or would YOU just act like an animal, pushing and grunting as a caged beast would.

Go on, put your hands up if you would do that, funny how several people ignore that question and instead resorts to insults.



The police are guilty of incompetence and then covering up that incompetence, yes, something should be done about that, but the crowd are the ones who are responsible for shoving each other, and that blame should not be shifted to another party.
 
I seem to recall the game kicked off with thousands of fans that had been to the pubs stuck in the tunnel. Unable to see what was going on they started pushing. There was nowhere for the fans in the cage to go and hence the crush. I seem to remember the gate being opened to relieve the crush outside.
 
The tunnel had a slope downwards of 1 in 6, the fans in there were pushed along because of the pressure from behind.
Exactly the same thing happened to Tottenham fans years before when police opened that gate to let them in, there weren't any deaths that day because the fans on the terraces were able to move sideways out of the way.
There were crush injuries and afterwards the pens were added, stopping liverpool fans from moving sideways.
The turnstiles were ancient and didn't work properly slowing everything down outside.
Sheffield Wednesday knew all this, so did the police but they still opened that gate.

Why, are they not adults, do they not have a sense of social responsibility?

You have no idea what you are talking about, perhaps you should stfu.
 
But the guy on the gate saw people being crushed. Would you support him now if the crush had happened outside? Or would you call for the 'idiot' to be hanged for not opening the gate?

Disasters are a string of events - not just one.
 
Dukinfield gave the order to open the gate. He was in the control room with cameras showing inside and outside.
He had no experience of crowd control methods at football matches and only replaced someone who did weeks before.
It was his inaction and misreading of the situation once the gate was opened that exacerbated the tragedy, and the terrible lies afterwards blaming the fans who were behaving just like any other fans, which have ensured that this thing was never going to go away until the truth came out. Which it is starting to do now 23 years later, don't you think that that's a bit scandalous?
 
People who still think that the Liverpool fans were somehow to blame for Hillsborough should go and have a read of the Man U forum red cafe.
There's endless threads on there expressing hatred and derision for Liverpool and their fans.
But read the Hillsborough thread and you'll see nothing but sympathy and empathy, thousands of them and other clubs fans signed that e-petition.
Because they know that it could just as easily been them that day if they had beaten Forest in the previous round.
 
You have no idea what you are talking about, perhaps you should stfu.

Cmon, why don't you answer my question.

Would you push at people in front of you in a crowd, with no concern as to anyone vulnerable being crushed or hurt further up in the crowd.

Have some moral courage and say you would or wouldn't do it instead of hiding behind insults.
 
conny";p="2509160 said:
Sooey...
One thing I did learn today from a Man utd supporter who is a season ticket holder is that thousands of them signed the petition to get the files released, although there is great rivalry I suppose its the football family coming togethere.

Hope the families can get some sort of closure and well done to the campaign for going on all these years

As would the scousers if the boot had been on the other foot, so to speak.

This is an Evertons account of his experiences on the day.


Sidfishes
12 September 2012 8:53PM




The evening of the tragedy I was 29 and I was sitting in a pub after travelling back from Villa Park and watching Everton beat Norwich in the other semi-final. Two minibuses had left that pub car park earlier that day; all off to enjoy a football match and a day out.

At 315 a buzz went around the stand the Everton supporters were in; some of the lads had radios - these were the days before mobile phones and a rumour went around that a stand had collapsed and there were 10 dead... 10 became 30. At half time all anyone was thinking about was the events happening at Hillsborough as the scale of the tragedy unfolded.

The game ended - we won 1-0 and on the way out one of the lads asked a West Midlands police officer what was happening... I'll never forget his reply

"70 Scousers dead... and if you lot kick off, there'll be another 70"

The trip home was in silence, except for the long queues at phone boxes before we reached the motorway and at service stations. I phoned my mum...

"Mum, just to let you know I'm okay... I was at the other game.."

A long pause

"Have you heard from our Stevie yet"? (my cousin)

She had, he had been on the mini-bus that went to Hillsborough.

We got to the pub and we waited for the other mini-bus. Lads who'd been taking the **** out of each other's team the night before and having daft fall outs were now waiting in hope, nervous daft jokes - some prayers muttered under our breaths... and the mini-bus pulled up and then the scanning of faces to see who was missing. They were lucky they all come back...

Well, I say they all came back - but I know that most of those lads left a little bit of themselves behind on the Leppings Lane Terrace; you could see it in their faces - I'd seen that look before in Falklands veterans - they'd seen horror and it was never going to leave them - not first thing in the morning - not last thing at night.

They survived - but it wasn't going to end for them that night - it took 23 years for the misplaced guilt to be finally expunged - too late for some. When I think of the later alcoholism and broken marriages that characterised some of the lads from that mini-bus - I can't help thinking that the events of that day and the 23 years of being under suspicion of contributing to the deaths of their friends in the most callous way by the national media and the oh so ****ing original innuendo spreaders and professional character assassination; I wonder how they carried on.

So to the lads (and girls) who came back and to the families who endured - my blue scouse heart goes out to you and if I've one bit of advice... don't let it rest here; take them to the highest courts in the land and get those disgraceful verdicts of accidental death overturned.

I don't deem to speak for all Evertonians - but as far as me and my mates are concerned - you never walked alone

I hope you find some peace
 
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