Commons Statement on Hillsborough

[peaps2]

Ohoo touched a nerve have I

Still no answer, would you, at the back, push with no regard to those up ahead.

Go on, answer that question, your insults only amuse me.

natural for people to push forwards when pushed from behind. I do believe the police pushed first and hence the crush..

 

[sooey]

This person gets it.

You are the one who DOESN'T get it.
Police crowd control methods for big football matches have been well established in this country for many years before Hillsborough.
It was the abject failure of the south yorkshire police to carry out those well known and well established methods at an inherently unsafe ground which was to blame.
As well as the abject failure of the emergency services to deal with the situation once it arose.
As has now been made crystal clear, it was the then establishment who chose to lay the blame on the easy targets of football fans to preserve public confidence in the police.

 

[snico]

You've never been in that situation have you?

What, pushed at a load of people in front of me, in an effort to get in before kick off, with no thought to how my pushing effects those in front?

No, I haven't been in that situation.

But the police DID move them forward from the back

Really, they physically pushed the back of the crowd or ordered the back of the crowd (which was causing the crush) to push forward.

Evidence please.



"A bottleneck developed with more fans arriving than could enter the two cages in the middle of the Leppings Lane Stand. People who had been refused entry could not leave the area because of the crush behind them but remained as an obstruction. The fans outside could hear the cheering from inside as the teams came on the pitch ten minutes before the match started, and again as the match kicked off, but could not get in; the start was not delayed while the fans got in. In one instance, a small gate was opened to eject one person, and twenty people got into the ground through it.[18] A side gate was also opened to ease the build-up. With an estimated 5,000 fans trying to get through the turnstiles, and increasing security concerns over crushing outside the turnstiles, the police, to avoid deaths outside the ground, opened a set of gates, intended as an exit, which did not have turnstiles (Gate C).[19] This decision allowed a rush of supporters through the gate into the stadium."

Backs up completely what I have been saying to you.

You realise there was 4 pens......why didnt the police, as in prevoious games, direct the fans to pens 1 and 4?

Why did the police open gate C, knowing there was a crush already happening, opening that gate made the crush more severe?

Why did the police refuse to open the small safety gates to the pitch?

Stopping the game would have not have made a difference, the police did not know what they where doing, thats why certain people will now be facing prosecution hopefully.

At 2:30pm pens 2 and 3 where almost full, a further 10'000 fans where then directed to the remaining turnstiles...being searched as they went in. Why was the tunnel into pens 2 and 3 not closed.....like it was for every other game. 23 turnstiles to accomodate 25'000 fans, all being searched before entry.

So, pens 2 and 3 where crowded.....outside was crowded, and the police decided to open gate C to relieve pressure outside.....Gate C leads to pens 2 and 3.

The crush at the Leppings Lane turnstiles outside the stadium was not caused by fans arriving ‘late’. The turnstiles were inadequate to process the crowd safely, and the rate of entry insufficient to prevent a dangerous build-up outside the ground.

Police errors led to deaths of 96 people.......no fans where to blame what so ever on the day.

Is that clear enough?

 

[AronSearle]

natural for people to push forwards when pushed from behind.

Oh I agree, but it doesn't absolve responsibility.

We are not talking about cattle here, but people, the police could only be held solely accountable if you accept the fans were no better than wild beasts.

They were not, they had the ability to act sensibly, so did the police, they all failed those crushed to death.

Anyone who says the fans are not at all to blame, is worse than the sun, at least the sun portrayed them as scummy drunken people, rather than stupid dumb animals.

it was the then establishment who chose to lay the blame on the easy targets of football fans to preserve public confidence in the police.

Yes yes yes, I get it, everyone was finger-pointing everyone else, instead of accepting they all had a part to play.

 

[ellal]

Stop feeding the AronSearle...!

 

[joinerjohn]

How many ticketless fans were in the stadium, contributing to events ? Or are Liverpool fans not prepared to stand up and be counted ?

There will have been some Liverpool fans bunking in, I'm sure some Forest fans did as well. Same as any other team in a big game. So what???
If you still don't understand....p*ss off.

So,,, How Many?? 10? 20 ? 100 ? 1000? Has anyone put their hand up and said, "I shouldn't have been there?" Has anyone at all , came forward and accepted that perhaps in some small way, they were partly to blame?

 

[snico]

As a football fan so glad the truth as come out.

I have been in similar situations (thankfully noone crushed), police pushing and shoving with horses asking us and telling us to move in 70s/80s, hitting fans with batons even if there was no space to move into.

People at back pushed trying to get into the game not knowing what was happening at front.

Also regards the police, they stopped ambulances from coming onto pitch (apart from 1) to help the injured and dying.

The coroner lied stating all the dead had died before 3.15 but at least one of the deceased still had a pulse and died in the arms of a police woman roughly 3.50

The police also changed statements and refused to listen to doctors and nurses who were there as spectators and not in a professional capacity

This person gets it.

Everyone had a part to play, the fans, the police, the management.

The people who pushed should be ashamed of themselves, doubly so for trying to absolve themselves by putting all the blame on another party.

Everyone was to blame.

You are a first class p###k

educate yourself and read the report.

 

[snico]

The documents disclosed to the Panel endorse Lord Justice Taylor’s key finding that the main reason for the Hillsborough disaster was a ‘failure in police control’. Yet they also reveal multiple failures within organisations that compromised crowd safety. The evidence shows conclusively that Liverpool fans neither caused nor contributed to the deaths of 96 men, women and children.

Now go troll somewhere else!

 

[AronSearle]

Why did the police open gate C, knowing there was a crush already happening, opening that gate made the crush more severe?

A crush already happening, hmmm, go on.....

outside was crowded

So the bit outside of their control was crowded, interesting.....

and the rate of entry insufficient to prevent a dangerous build-up outside the ground.

Outside, outside, hmm why this mention of outside.

Is it because people outside were trying to push in, na, that's just silly....

 

[snico]

Why did the police open gate C, knowing there was a crush already happening, opening that gate made the crush more severe?

A crush already happening, hmmm, go on.....due to policing errors

outside was crowded

So the bit outside of their control was crowded, interesting.....outside the ground WAS under the police control

and the rate of entry insufficient to prevent a dangerous build-up outside the ground.

Outside, outside, hmm why this mention of outside Police control crowd outside, aswell as inside

Is it because people outside were trying to push in, na, that's just silly....

Making your aruments very poor aint you?

I'll post the findings again for you shall I, I have put in bold the bit you should take notice of.

The documents disclosed to the Panel endorse Lord Justice Taylor’s key finding that the main reason for the Hillsborough disaster was a ‘failure in police control’. Yet they also reveal multiple failures within organisations that compromised crowd safety. The evidence shows conclusively that Liverpool fans neither caused nor contributed to the deaths of 96 men, women and children.

 

[joinerjohn]

Yep,, Liverpool fans, would never cause any trouble or anything at a football match,, now would they ? Remember 5 yrs before?

 

[snico]

Yep,, Liverpool fans, would never cause any trouble or anything at a football match,, now would they ? Remember 5 yrs before?

I do yes. I also remember hundreds of Juventus fans attacking Liverpool fans and Liverpool fans retaliating against them. In a ground that was already falling down and should have been closed!

I also remember more Juventus fans being arrested than Liverpool fans. But lets forget that part eh?

 

[snico]

Yep,, Liverpool fans, would never cause any trouble or anything at a football match,, now would they ? Remember 5 yrs before?

I do yes. I also remember hundreds of Juventus fans attacking Liverpool fans and Liverpool fans retaliating against them. In a ground that was already falling down and should have been closed!

I also remember more Juventus fans being arrested than Liverpool fans. But lets forget that part eh?

 

[chapeau]

Football related violence was a problem back then and Liverpool wasn't an exception. The thugs couldn't really have made an impact in that crush though and being a footie hooligan doesn't mean you deserve to die.

 

[Bodgeitandleggit]

Why do tossers on here think they are right when all the findings have come out with the truth and now the apologies from the relevant bodies........no matter what sooey or snico says they will never accept the TRUTH ...lies ,lies and damned lies and now the flookers have been caught out.
As for large crowds you can also tell that these same tossers have never been to a major sporting event that has masses of crowds and badly policed...they was probably at home watching soaps on tv.. I often went to Leeds games in the 70,s /80.s and the police was the same them forcing crowds down a avenue , even residents going home from work was forced down roads and trying to explain to the police resulted in a punch in the face.... I have had a look at redcafe ( man u forum) and the guys there said it could have easily have been them if results went the other way..
Lets hope the cause of death gets changed to unlawful killing instead of accidental death and then those who tampered with evidence pay the full price.