Concentration camps

[joe-90]

They are official figures. If you don't like it - then that's tough.

And you really should learn the difference between racism and immigration policy.

Do you still adhere to the old 'six million' when the Jewish authorities do not?

Why do you do that? Ask yourself - why do you do that?

You've had enough hints. Research your sources and references a little more thoroughly instead of selecting only those that meet your pov.

You banged on about the Red Cross. There might be a good starting point for you.

Nope. We are talking official figures that keep going down and down and down and...

 

[joe-90]

The American prosecutors at Nuremberg decided the best evidence against Nazi war criminals was the record left by the Nazi German state itself. They wanted to convict Nazi war criminals with their own words. While the Germans destroyed some of the historical record at the end of the war and some German records were destroyed during the Allied bombing of German cities, Allied armies captured millions of documents during the conquest of Germany in 1945. Allied prosecutors submitted some 3,000 tons of records at the Nuremberg trial. More than a decade later, beginning in 1958, the United States National Archives, in collaboration with the American Historical Association, published 62 volumes of finding aids to the records captured by the US military at the end of the war. More than 30 further volumes were published before the end of the 20th century

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007271[/QUOTE]


All that evidence and yet they were nearly three million deaths out? And they stated (with eye witness accounts) that Dachau was a death camp? (It's now confirmed that it never was) Let's talk about it shall we?

 

[joe-90]

Excerpts from David Cole's retraction:

I would like to state for the record that there is no question in my mind that during the Holocaust of Europe's Jews during World War II, the Nazis employed gas chambers in an attempt to commit genocide against the Jews. At camps in both Eastern and Western Europe, Jews were murdered in gas chambers which employed such poison gases as Zyklon B and carbon monoxide (in the Auschwitz camp, for example, the gas chambers used Zyklon B). The evidence for this is overwhelming and unmistakable...

I now understand that I owe it to the people I wronged to make a forceful repudication [sic] of my earlier views. I also owe a very large apology, not only to the many people I enraged, and to the family and friends I hurt, but especially to the survivors of the Holocaust, who deserve only our respect and compassion, not re-victimization.

Therefore, to all of the above people, let me offer my most humble and very, very sincere apology. I am sorry for what (I) did, and I am sorry for the hurt I caused...

Now please don't threaten to kill me or my family anymore.

(for the dummies that is David Cole speaking. They call it coercion).

 

[joe-90]

http://www.shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images/MedExp01.jpg

here Joe medical experiments on kids, oh but it never happened did it you c.....!

Dunno. They look like starving kids to me. No-one doubts that they starved and died of Typhus. Even Anne Frank died of typhus - but she did survive Auschwitz (though you tell me that all children were killed when they got off the train). Make your mind up.

 

[joe-90]

Peaps, i'm totally with you, and everyone else on here who is trying to educate the old fool Joe

But I think you should remove them pics, we all know what happened and its not nice to pics of children going to their deaths.

We all know it happened, just a shame Joe is blind.

Blind, stupid or a nazi sympathiser.

An appology would go a long way Joe.

What are you going on about - I agree 100%. Never doubted it - it is well documented.

 

[wobs]

They are official figures. If you don't like it - then that's tough.

And you really should learn the difference between racism and immigration policy.

Do you still adhere to the old 'six million' when the Jewish authorities do not?

Why do you do that? Ask yourself - why do you do that?

You've had enough hints. Research your sources and references a little more thoroughly instead of selecting only those that meet your pov.

You banged on about the Red Cross. There might be a good starting point for you.

Nope. We are talking official figures that keep going down and down and down and...

Actually its going up, as actual names are added to a database through detailed research. Current figure is at about 3 million. This is actual people counted. People with names and families.

Higher figures such as 5 to 6 million are based upon a variety of methods, but as many records were destroyed, precise figures were always hard to come to, but it is not hard to believe that that 3 million will reach nearer 6 million, as more names are added given that those people did exist before the war, and were notably absent from the world afterwards.

Since 1945, the most commonly cited figure for the total number of Jews killed has been six million. The Yad Vashem Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' Remembrance Authority in Jerusalem, writes that there is no precise figure for the number of Jews killed. The figure most commonly used is the six million attributed to Adolf Eichmann, a senior SS official.[241] Early calculations range from 5.1 million from Raul Hilberg, to 5.95 million from Jacob Leschinsky. Yisrael Gutman and Robert Rozett in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust estimate 5.59–5.86 million.[242] A study led by Wolfgang Benz of the Technical University of Berlin suggests 5.29–6.2 million.[243][244] Yad Vashem writes that the main sources for these statistics are comparisons of prewar and postwar censuses and population estimates, and Nazi documentation on deportations and murders.[243] Its Central Database of Shoah Victims' Names currently holds close to 3 million names of Holocaust victims, all accessible online. Yad Vashem continues its project of collecting names of Jewish victims from historical documents and individual memories.[245]

Hilberg's estimate of 5.1 million, in the third edition of The Destruction of the European Jews, includes over 800,000 who died from "ghettoization and general privation"; 1,400,000 killed in open-air shootings; and up to 2,900,000 who perished in camps. Hilberg estimates the death toll of Jews in Poland as up to 3,000,000.[246] Hilberg's numbers are generally considered to be a conservative estimate, as they typically include only those deaths for which records are available, avoiding statistical adjustment.[247]

British historian Martin Gilbert arrived at a "minimum estimate" of over 5.75 million Jewish victims.[248] Lucy S. Dawidowicz used pre-war census figures to estimate that 5.934 million Jews died (see table below).[249]

There were about 8 to 10 million Jews in the territories controlled directly or indirectly by the Nazis (the uncertainty arises from the lack of knowledge about how many Jews there were in the Soviet Union). The six million killed in the Holocaust thus represent 60 to 75 percent of these Jews. Of Poland's 3.3 million Jews, over 90 percent were killed. The same proportion were killed in Latvia and Lithuania, but most of Estonia's Jews were evacuated in time. Of the 750,000 Jews in Germany and Austria in 1933, only about a quarter survived. Although many German Jews emigrated before 1939, the majority of these fled to Czechoslovakia, France or the Netherlands, from where they were later deported to their deaths. In Czechoslovakia, Greece, the Netherlands, and Yugoslavia, over 70 percent were killed. 50 to 70 percent were killed in Romania, Belgium and Hungary. It is likely that a similar proportion were killed in Belarus and Ukraine, but these figures are less certain. Countries with notably lower proportions of deaths include Bulgaria, Denmark, France, Italy, and Norway. Albania was the only country occupied by the Nazis that had a significantly larger Jewish population in 1945 than in 1939. About two hundred native Jews and over a thousand refugees were provided with false documents, hidden when necessary, and generally treated as honored guests in a country whose population was roughly 60% Muslim.[250] Additionally, Japan, as an Axis member, had its own unique response to Nazi policies regarding Jews; see Shanghai Ghetto.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

Database:
http://www1.yadvashem.org/yv/en/remembrance/hall_of_names.asp

Who would you rather believe, a holocaust denier, or multiple historians?

 

[joe-90]

I thought it was six million. Who can't count?

 

[snico]

http://www.shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images/MedExp01.jpg

here Joe medical experiments on kids, oh but it never happened did it you c.....!

Dunno. They look like starving kids to me. No-one doubts that they starved and died of Typhus. Even Anne Frank died of typhus - but she did survive Auschwitz (though you tell me that all children were killed when they got off the train). Make your mind up.

And doesn't Anne Frank mention in her diary of the gassing of women an children?....which you think did not happen?

 

[joe-90]

There was much rumor and fear in the camps. How would she know what was going on? She survived it didn't she? Why did she survive as a female child, useless to the regime?

 

[snico]

There was much rumor and fear in the camps. How would she know what was going on? She survived it didn't she? Why did she survive as a female child, useless to the regime?

Because she was above the age limit of 15, she was one of the youngest to be spared.....and she didnt survive the concentration camps, she still died of typhus which she wouldnt have got if she wasnt imprisoned.

 

[joe-90]

Let me just make this clear. I don't doubt that which is well documented. The death squads, the typhus, the starvation etc. It probably runs into the deaths of millions.

What I do doubt is the 'death camps'. Systematic genocide.

Hope that clears things up.

So don't go posting images of people being shot - I agree that it happened.
I've never disagreed on that point.

 

[snico]

There was much rumor and fear in the camps. How would she know what was going on? She survived it didn't she? Why did she survive as a female child, useless to the regime?

Probably something to do with the hundreds of people that went into one building, and where never seen again?

 

[joe-90]

There was much rumor and fear in the camps. How would she know what was going on? She survived it didn't she? Why did she survive as a female child, useless to the regime?

Because she was above the age limit of 15, she was one of the youngest to be spared.....and she didnt survive the concentration camps, she still died of typhus which she wouldnt have got if she wasnt imprisoned.

I seem to recall she was 14. She never made any claim that she was abused in any way. I did read her diary a long time back. I was a believer in the death camps too until about ten years ago.

 

[joe-90]

There was much rumor and fear in the camps. How would she know what was going on? She survived it didn't she? Why did she survive as a female child, useless to the regime?

Probably something to do with the hundreds of people that went into one building, and where never seen again?

But that's just it - there is no record of that happening. The train arrived in the centre of camp - in full view of the rest of the camp. I guess you didn't watch the video then.

 

[snico]

Let me just make this clear. I don't doubt that which is well documented. The death squads, the typhus, the starvation etc. It probably runs into the deaths of millions.

What I do doubt is the 'death camps'. Systematic genocide.

Hope that clears things up.

So don't go posting images of people being shot - I agree that it happened.
I've never disagreed on that point.

I am actually amazed that you doubt they existed!

They also had mobile gas vans in which they killed people, they took the idea from Soviets where they gassed prisoners.

Have heard of a programme called Action T4 in which the Germans killed disabled and people with mental ilness'. They even put up posters to tell the public that these people cost so much to look after, it would be easier to just kill them.