Concentration camps

[mdf290]

Lets be honest here . . .

Is it even worth discussing?

It's history , in the past , gone. If there is one sure way to keep the subject alive it is by denying it existed and causing debate.

The first casualty of any war is the truth.

Witness today BOTH sides of the Syrian uprising claiming the other side massacred 250 villagers.

Germany has long since been accepted back into the European fold so much so that they are the figurehead. .
Do we really need to rake coals?

 

[joe-90]

History needs recording properly. A proper archaeological investigation would clear up all the outstanding issues. What are we waiting for? Let's investigate and put it to bed.

 

[mdf290]

Just another point , What is your reasoning to Champion this issue Joe..
It's obviously not to make yourself more popular so why?

I could blog about Santa Claus never existing to every child forum I could find and yes I would be right but would it be the 'right thing to do'?

If I was going to choose a hobby horse to ride it would not be one that would make me unpopular for absolutely NO personal gain...

 

[peaps2]

I just called Mark Weber, the director of the Institute for Historical Review, the leading Holocaust denial organization in America, to ask him if he knew James Von Brunn, and to find out what he thought of the shooting at the Holocaust Museum. Weber said that the shooting is a "terrible and stupid and criminal thing, and any reasonable person would condemn it." He said he knew of Von Brunn because "people have sent me things from him, but that's all I know about it."

I asked him if his far-right organization, which sponsors conferences and magazines that deny key aspects of the Holocaust, has created an atmosphere in which white supremacists feel compelled to attack Jewish targets. He got angry and said "every movement and organization has insane people in it. What was this guy's point? I can't even figure that out."

I suggested that one point might be to drive away tourists who hope to learn about the Holocaust but who don't want to endanger their families while doing so. Weber said he was opposed to the creation and maintenance of the Holocaust Museum, because "obviously this museum doesn't exist as an expression of altruistic concern for humanity but as an expression of the enormous power of the Jewish community." But he said he would never countenance violence against it. He did say, however, that it does not depict history accurately; for instance, he said, gas chambers never existed.

You get the idea.

http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...right-holocaust-denier-says-it-aint-us/19104/

 

[peaps2]

One of the primary leaders in the fight to question and delegitimize the Holocaust has proclaimed that fight to be a lost cause, sparking a furious debate among his cohorts.

Mark Weber, a telegenic Californian, has served for 15 years as director of the Institute for Historical Review, which was founded in the late 1970s as a center for people dedicated to doubting and criticizing mainstream histories of the Holocaust.

This month, however, Weber released an essay on the institute’s Web site, questioning whether this work has ever had any relevance. Weber argued that Holocaust revisionists are unlikely to have any success in convincing large numbers of people.

“It’s been almost 30 years, and Holocaust revisionism has gotten almost no support in academic circles or society at large,” Weber told the Forward. “It’s gotten some support in Iran, or places like that, but as far as I know, there is no history department supporting writing by these folks.”

The argument in Weber’s essay, “How Relevant Is Holocaust Revisionism?” might appear, at first glance, to be good news for the Jewish organizations that have fought against Holocaust revisionists. But in his essay, Weber calls for his movement to shift to a new mission, one more purely directed to fighting against “Jewish-Zionist power.”

http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...right-holocaust-denier-says-it-aint-us/19104/

 

[joe-90]

Just another point , What is your reasoning to Champion this issue Joe..
It's obviously not to make yourself more popular so why?

I could blog about Santa Claus never existing to every child forum I could find and yes I would be right but would it be the 'right thing to do'?

If I was going to choose a hobby horse to ride it would not be one that would make me unpopular for absolutely NO personal gain...

Well I didn't start the thread but it is a subject that interest me. As a ex believer I guess that I'm a bit like an ex smoker - far more critical of smokers.

It hasn't done my popularity any harm at all. People are starting to think and do their own research and their finding corroborate what I have been saying.

There will always be people like Peaps who were indoctrinated as children and trying to convince them that the 'six million' isn't correct is like telling a Christian that the Bible is a comic. I don't expect to get him to change his mind - for he cannot. The 'Six million' is burned into his brain and cannot be undone. However, for the rest of us that have open minds - there is always the few that will start to ask themselves what the truth really is.

 

[peaps2]

Weber continues:

No informed person disputes that Europe’s Jews did, in fact, suffer a great catastrophe during the Second World War. Millions were forced from their homes and deported to brutal internment in crowded ghettos and camps. Jewish communities across Central and Eastern Europe, large and small, were wiped out. Millions lost their lives. When the war ended in 1945, most of the Jews of Germany, Poland, the Netherlands and others countries were gone.

Given all this, it should not be surprising that even well-founded revisionist arguments are often dismissed as heartless quibbling.

Question: Did Weber just learn of the Goebbels journals? Or has he known about them for years, and continued publishing Holocaust revisionist writings despite knowing they were false?

The second reason that Holocaust denial no longer helps advance the campaign against the “Jewish-Zionist power,” just alluded to, is that, because of its evident untruth, it discredits and distracts from that campaign.

What drove the Holocaust denial enterprise, Weber tells us, was the hope that “exposing the Holocaust as a hoax [would] deliver a shattering blow to Israel and Jewish-Zionist power.” But, he continues, not only is the Holocaust not a hoax, but Jewish power is not based on just the Holocaust. Jewish power was already established in America prior to World War II. Therefore exposing the Holocaust as a hoax (which he admits can’t be done, but, he says in a thought experiment, even if it could be done) will not change anything essential as far as entrenched Jewish power is concerned and the need to destroy it.

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/012915.html

 

[joe-90]

Peaps mate - you are looking decidedly silly.

Debate the facts or butt out.

 

[mdf290]

History needs recording properly. A proper archaeological investigation would clear up all the outstanding issues. What are we waiting for? Let's investigate and put it to bed.

History will NEVER be recorded accurately it is being incorrectly recorded as we speak and has been ever since Iraq or afghanistan or the Arab spring erupted.

You cannot change history only swap your point of view on who you believe.
..

The jews were persecuted because they had wealth and Hitler needed money to finance a war. How better a way to get it than simply vilify them.

There is something here that shows noone has learnt anything from the last wars..

When to support someone even if innocent would mean your own death...what would you do?

Would you support Assad in Syria now if your family was threatened or you faced summary execution from your peers or would you support the FSA in fear of your life fearing retribution even though you know that if they succeed in overthrowing Assad your country and your life will be less safe than it was under Assad?

 

[joe-90]

We can clear lots of it up by scientific investigation. If cyanide is present - then it is a simple test to prove it. What are we waiting for?

 

[Norcon]

We can clear lots of it up by scientific investigation. If cyanide is present - then it is a simple test to prove it. What are we waiting for?

Your argument is based on numbers. The one that will always be remembered is 6 million Jewish people persecuted by the germans.

You won't change that and neither would desecrating the soil where the souls of the tortured still wander.
It would be a heinous act of barbarity akin to digging up a Church graveyard to settle a petty argument about how many are buried under the soil.

 

[joe-90]

The Jews made up less than HALF the camp numbers.

I guess you have your own reasons for hanging on to the 'six million'.

If you were indoctrinated as a child then you can't change that - you've been hardwired. You have no other choice than to believe. It doesn't mean the rest of us can't make up our minds though does it?

 

[alumni]

You won't change that and neither would desecrating the soil where the souls of the tortured still wander.
It would be a heinous act of barbarity akin to digging up a Church graveyard to settle a petty argument about how many are buried under the soil.

Like that would bother Joe.
He's already got his shovel ready.

 

[joe-90]

Archaeologists regularly dig up graves. Don't you watch Time Team? So do forensic scientists and even moving graveyards for motorways.

Do you have a problem with any of that? If so - why?

 

[Norcon]

Archaeologists regularly dig up graves. Don't you watch Time Team? So do forensic scientists and even moving graveyards for motorways.

Do you have a problem with any of that? If so - why?

I'd have a big problem with it if my relatives were in the graves.
The thought of the likes of you trampling over the soil with the history of the death camps with a shovel in hand is even more disturbing.