Concentration camps

Status
Not open for further replies.
Norwegian Labor Party lawmaker Anders Mathisen isn’t very popular right now — members of his own party are calling for his resignation after Mathisen reportedly told the Finnmarken newspaper that the Holocaust never happened.

“There is no evidence the gas chambers or mass graves existed,” he told the newspaper, according to reports. “Even reputable Holocaust historians have admitted it cannot be established.”

Mathisen reportedly has accused Holocaust survivors of exaggerating their stories, stating that the public has been brainwashed into believing the Holocaust took place because of films such as “Schindler’s List”, according to the forum.

The lawmaker, who also posted his findings on his Facebook page, has refused to resign from the party.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4046049,00.html
 
Sponsored Links
You shown your hand Joe.
All based on a sham.

I suppose you feel really silly accusing members of being hard wired Jewish zealots because they had the temerity to stand up against your hard right utterances.

Shame on you Joe, shame on you.
 
Sponsored Links
Answer the issues in the link then. You won't. You can't. They are all true but you can't admit it. You can't go against your programming. Just like Creighton in red dwarf.


How many died mate?
 
Diesel Gassing

In recent years, the most widely-circulated story has been that Jews were gassed at Treblinka with carbon monoxide from the exhaust of a diesel engine. (note 22)

However, as American engineer Friedrich Berg has established, this story is improbable for technical reasons. (note 23) In spite of the obnoxious odor of diesel exhaust, diesel engines produce much smaller quantities of toxic carbon monoxide than ordinary gasoline motors. (note 24) It would thus be difficult efficiently to gas large numbers of people using diesel exhaust. A normal gasoline engine would be much more logical. (note 25)

It is important to keep in mind that the "evidence" now usually cited for diesel gassing at Treblinka is no more credible than the evidence that was once presented for steaming and suffocating. Apparently the steaming and suffocating stories have been dropped for the sake of credible consistency.

Solid evidence for gassings at Treblinka has proven to be very elusive. For example, it turned out that none of the witnesses in the 1951 West German "Treblinka" court case ever actually saw anyone being gassed. "The type of gas used to kill the people there [Treblinka] cannot be determined with certainty because none of the witnesses was able to witness this procedure," the judges declared in their verdict. (note 26)

At least some former Treblinka prisoners testified in postwar West German trials that they not only never saw a gas chamber, but did not even hear about gassings from others. (note 27)

Holocaust historians today are not able to agree about the number of homicidal "gas chambers" at Treblinka. Raul Hilberg maintains that there were three at first, but because they were allegedly not adequate for the job, more were built later on. There were eventually six or perhaps ten chambers, he reports. (note 28) Others have reported the existence of 13 gas chambers at Treblinka. (note 29)
 
You're starting to dribble Joe.

Ask nursey to wipe your chin.

HOW MANY DIED? You are looking decidedly silly mate. It's a simple enough question. :mrgreen:

What???

And this from the person who measured the number of dead by stating how far they'd stretch round the earth.

In fact, the same person who said the earth is 'round'.

If that was the case, the earth would also be flat. It would certainly your stance.
Perhaps that's what they did with all the bodies Joe, just pushed them over the edge?
 
You're starting to dribble Joe.

Ask nursey to wipe your chin.

HOW MANY DIED? You are looking decidedly silly mate. It's a simple enough question. :mrgreen:

What???

And this from the person who measured the number of dead by stating how far they'd stretch round the earth.

In fact, the same person who said the earth is 'round'.

If that was the case, the earth would also be flat. It would certainly your stance.
Perhaps that's what they did with all the bodies Joe, just pushed them over the edge?
How many mate - nearest million will do. :mrgreen:
 
Diesel Gassing

In recent years, the most widely-circulated story has been that Jews were gassed at Treblinka with carbon monoxide from the exhaust of a diesel engine. (note 22)

However, as American engineer Friedrich Berg has established, this story is improbable for technical reasons. (note 23) In spite of the obnoxious odor of diesel exhaust, diesel engines produce much smaller quantities of toxic carbon monoxide than ordinary gasoline motors. (note 24) It would thus be difficult efficiently to gas large numbers of people using diesel exhaust. A normal gasoline engine would be much more logical. (note 25)

It is important to keep in mind that the "evidence" now usually cited for diesel gassing at Treblinka is no more credible than the evidence that was once presented for steaming and suffocating. Apparently the steaming and suffocating stories have been dropped for the sake of credible consistency.

Solid evidence for gassings at Treblinka has proven to be very elusive. For example, it turned out that none of the witnesses in the 1951 West German "Treblinka" court case ever actually saw anyone being gassed. "The type of gas used to kill the people there [Treblinka] cannot be determined with certainty because none of the witnesses was able to witness this procedure," the judges declared in their verdict. (note 26)

At least some former Treblinka prisoners testified in postwar West German trials that they not only never saw a gas chamber, but did not even hear about gassings from others. (note 27)

Holocaust historians today are not able to agree about the number of homicidal "gas chambers" at Treblinka. Raul Hilberg maintains that there were three at first, but because they were allegedly not adequate for the job, more were built later on. There were eventually six or perhaps ten chambers, he reports. (note 28) Others have reported the existence of 13 gas chambers at Treblinka. (note 29)

Berg's arguments boil down to the following:

Diesel engines, unlike gasoline engines, do not produce large amounts of carbon monoxide (CO) under normal operation, and it is extremely difficult to get them to produce levels of CO sufficient to cause death within the time reported by the witnesses.

Eyewitnesses described the corpses from a diesel gassing as blue in color - but acute carbon monoxide poisoning victims are red.

Furthermore, the Germans had much better ways to produce carbon monoxide than diesel engines (the "producer gas" trucks and busses), so using diesels makes no sense.

Therefore (reasons Berg), contrary to the assertion of historians, the victims were not killed by carbon monoxide.

Diesel engines normally produce a fairly high proportion of oxygen in the exhaust, so people would not die of asphyxiation in the amount of time claimed by the witnesses.

Even if the above were not true, if execution were to be by asphyxiation, there was no sense in running the engine - it would have been sufficient to seal the victims in an airtight chamber, so pumping in exhaust for asphyxiation made no sense.

Therefore (reasons Berg) they were not killed by asphyxiation either; the whole affair is a hoax.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-denial/diesel-01.html

round and round we go :rolleyes:
 
Norwegian Labor Party lawmaker Anders Mathisen isn’t very popular right now — members of his own party are calling for his resignation after Mathisen reportedly told the Finnmarken newspaper that the Holocaust never happened.

“There is no evidence the gas chambers or mass graves existed,” he told the newspaper, according to reports. “Even reputable Holocaust historians have admitted it cannot be established.”

Mathisen reportedly has accused Holocaust survivors of exaggerating their stories, stating that the public has been brainwashed into believing the Holocaust took place because of films such as “Schindler’s List”, according to the forum.

The lawmaker, who also posted his findings on his Facebook page, has refused to resign from the party.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4046049,00.html[/QUOTE]

And?
 
You're starting to dribble Joe.

Ask nursey to wipe your chin.

HOW MANY DIED? You are looking decidedly silly mate. It's a simple enough question. :mrgreen:

What???

And this from the person who measured the number of dead by stating how far they'd stretch round the earth.

In fact, the same person who said the earth is 'round'.

If that was the case, the earth would also be flat. It would certainly your stance.
Perhaps that's what they did with all the bodies Joe, just pushed them over the edge?
How many mate - nearest million will do. :mrgreen:

estimated 6 million jewish
 
Norwegian Labor Party lawmaker Anders Mathisen isn’t very popular right now — members of his own party are calling for his resignation after Mathisen reportedly told the Finnmarken newspaper that the Holocaust never happened.

“There is no evidence the gas chambers or mass graves existed,” he told the newspaper, according to reports. “Even reputable Holocaust historians have admitted it cannot be established.”

Mathisen reportedly has accused Holocaust survivors of exaggerating their stories, stating that the public has been brainwashed into believing the Holocaust took place because of films such as “Schindler’s List”, according to the forum.

The lawmaker, who also posted his findings on his Facebook page, has refused to resign from the party.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4046049,00.html[/QUOTE]

And?
He wants the world to accept it as valid assertion that the Holocaust did not happen.

Strange, because he said yesterday that it did.
 
Yes we are aware that low concentrations were found, what is your point?

Simple question even for you.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ItUTx9QQAo

LISTEN TO DR PIPER.

Stop acting like a programmed dummy and open your brain.

Watched the video and read the link to the site, aware that there were low traces and that one of the chambers was re-built. What is your point?

It was only used for 20 minutes per day. ;)

He also went on to say it was used 24/7 on occasion and 24/7 is the accepted version backed up by.....

Is that all you have? :rolleyes:

You could have gone into the gas itself..

It's the accepted version because it suits your argument.

The problem you have - is that if it were - there would be high readings - and there weren't.

You are giving the world a good chance to make up their own mind anyway. Not everyone has the mental block of brainwashing. ;)

Holocaust deniers often claim that since more hydrocyanic compounds were found in the delousing chambers than in the ruins of the so-called "extermination" chambers at Auschwitz, and the reverse would be true if people were actually gassed there, it is clear that no gassings occurred.

But - HCN is far more effective on warm-blooded animals (including humans) than on insects, so the period of exposure to HCN is far longer for delousing clothes than that required for homicidal gassings, and a much lower concentration is necessary to kill people instead of insects.

A concentration of up to 16,000 ppm (parts per million) is sometimes used, with exposure times of up to 72 hours, to kill insects, but as little as 300 ppm will cause death in humans within fifteen minutes or so.

Breitman offers background information about the development of Zyklon B as a killing device, and provides clear evidence that the Nazis determined the effective Zyklon B concentration through a process of trial and error. (Get pub/camps/auschwitz/auschwitz.faq1)

When the difference in the concentration of gas required to kill insects and humans was mentioned in Leuchter's cross-examination in the Zündel trial, Leuchter responded: " I've never killed beetles. I, you know, I don't know. I haven't made computations for killing beetles" - Hardly the response one would expect from an "expert" on the subject...

Because of the relatively small concentrations required to exterminate humans as opposed to lice, and because of the far shorter exposure time required, the HCN in the gas chambers used to kill humans hardly had time to form chemical compounds on the walls.

The gas chambers were not very large (those in Kremas II and III were about 210 square meters), and the Zyklon B was dropped through four openings in the roof, spreading the gas very quickly. These openings are still visible in the ruins of the gas chambers, and rare photographs of them, taken while the camp was in operation, exist, and copies are readily available (Brugioni et al) from the sources noted in Section 6.1, below. Since the concentration used was higher than the lethal one, death was swift. (Get pub/holocaust/gifs/ krema4.gif - Krema IV was above-ground, and the Zyklon B was introduced through clearly visible slits in the walls. See also ~/gifs/ c_krema4.gif, which provides a closeup of the wall openings.

Leuchter's data is further suspect because the delousing chambers where he obtained his samples were left intact by the SS, while the extermination chambers were destroyed. Clearly, their walls were exposed to the elements for forty-five years, which would certainly effect the validity of the samples taken. (The ruins of Krema II are covered with about three feet of water during certain periods of the year, and HCN compounds would eventually dissolve under such conditions. Nonetheless, so many gassings occurred there that some of the compound did remain).

Summarizing, the walls of the extermination gas chambers were in contact with HCN for a much shorter time then those of the delousing chambers, and for the last 45 years were exposed to surroundings which dissolve the compounds, while the delousing rooms were not. Therefore it is obvious that less traces of compounds would remain in them. This debunks the major "amazing discovery" in Leuchter's report, which, in retrospect, wasn't 'amazing' at all.

This fact - that all, or most, of the compounds would vanish during 45 years of exposure - is quite clearly stated in the report written by the experts at the Cracow Institute of Forensic Research:


INSTITUTE OF FORENSIC RESEARCH
In the name of Prof. Dr. Jan Sehn, Krakow
Division of Forensic Toxicology

Krakow, 24 Sept. 1990
Westerplatte 9 / Code 31-033
Tel. 505-44, 592-24, 287-50
Telex 0325213 eksad ...

The hydrocyanic acid (HCN) that is released from the Zyklon B
preparation is a liquid with a boiling point of about 27 degrees
Celsius. It has an acidic character, and therefore forms
compounds with metallic salts, which are known as cyanides. The
salts of alkaline metals (such as sodium and potassium) are
water soluble.

Hydrocyanic acid is a very weak acid, and accordingly its salts
dissolve easily in stronger acids. Even carbonic acid, which is
formed as a reaction of carbon dioxide with water, will dissolve
ferro-cyanide.

Stronger acids, such as sulfuric acids, easily dissolve the
cyanides. The compounds of cyanide ions with heavy metals are
longer lasting. This includes the already mentioned Prussian
blue, although this will also slowly dissolve in an acidic
environment.

Therefore, one can hardly assume that traces of cyanic compounds
could still be detected in construction materials (plaster,
brick) after 45 years, after being subjected to the weather and
the elements (rain, acid oxides, especially sulfuric and
nitrogen oxides). More reliable would be the analysis of wall
plaster [samples] from closed rooms which were not subject to
weather and the elements (including acid rain).

The discovery of hydrocyanic acid compounds in samples of
material which had been subject to the elements can only be
accidental.

The deniers often claim that the gas chamber in Krema I was left intact, and therefore its walls were not exposed to the elements. Curiously, they also make great issue of the fact that Krema I was converted into an air-raid shelter, and then rebuilt by the Soviet Army, after the liberation of the camp, to reproduce its original shape, saying that it has been used to mislead the public, who were told that people were gassed in the building. (The logic of their holding both views when it seems advantageous to do so will perhaps escape you, but then logic has not been a demonstrated asset when it comes to Holocaust denial. See Section 3.0.)

The modification consisted of essentially removing some partitioning walls inside the gas chamber, which were added as a common feature of bomb shelters. Nontheless, this is the room in which people were gassed; there are still traces of cyanide on its walls, as Leuchter admits (he found traces in 6 of 7 samples).

But - the gas chamber of Krema I was used only for a short time, before the conversion. This, and the fact that "only" about ten thousand people were murdered within it, compared to three-hundred-fifty-thousand and four-hundred-thousand in Kremas II and III, explains why relatively small amounts of cyanide compounds remain. The other Kremas were destroyed by the SS prior to the Soviet liberation.

Finally, cyanide compounds were found on the ventilation grills of the extermination chambers, proving beyond doubt that gassing did take place within.

http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/leuchter/leuchter-faq-04.html

:rolleyes:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Sponsored Links
Back
Top