Consumer unit breakers

[SimonH2]

There's nothing wrong with my style of writing.

So long as you believe that, I feel sure that you will repeatedly fail to achieve what you want to achieve with so many of your posts ...

And we have all worked out by now that there is little point in arguing with someone who cannot see any error in his ways and writings even when it's pointed out. His previous (in this thread) shifting of the goalposts/"interesting" interpretation of words didn't go unnoticed but it's pointless arguing with that personality type.
His latest statement of beliefs does rather confirm some suspicions some of us have voiced, though suggesting he seeks professional help* will no doubt have him complaining about personal abuse.

* I personally think that he would gain greatly by asking his GP for a referral to his area Adult Autism Assessment Service (or equivalent). That's a personal opinion.

 

[JohnW2]

<various things>

FWIW, I don't disagree with anything in what you have just written (although I may have other thoughts about possibly appropriate referrals).

Kind Regards, John

 

[deadshort]

Step too far, i think.

DS

 

[scousespark]

Post Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:06 am
Hi I need to get some breakers for a new consumer unit I'm having installed
What rating do I need for

Sockets
Upstairs lights
Downstairs lights
Garage
Cooker
Hob

Post Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:15 am
I've been given a bigger board as currently the whole house sockets is one ring and garage all on one breaker
Down the line I plan to split the ring and with this new board I am putting garage separate
Also re positioning board
I am doing the donkey work and electrician will sign it off when wired in

Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:15 am
THank you
Basically my current board has no room for future expansion
5 breakers that's it
I've been given a mk board with 10 odd breakers in it

My questions are
1. Is it ok for whole house of sockets , conservatory spur and garage on 1 breaker ?
2. Are the current breakers ok for what currently doing as the 20a and 30a were immersion and shower but now hob and cooker
3 why is hob and cooker separate breakers and in rings ? Is this normal
4 current setup will remain but on new board garage will be separate so what breaker would be needed for 3 sockets and 2 strip lights and 2 outside lights in garage

Securespark and ban answered, but obvioulsy not with your required 'correct' answwr.
BAN then explained the difference between an EICR (when you move into a new property) and an EIC for this installation.
BAN has not been in the slight offensive to Dave, apart from trying to tell him he is out of his depth.

You don't start a CU change with a CU and a set of MCBS. Especially an old CU which you then want to reconfigure to satisfy the 17th edition
The first step would be an EICR. There is more to a 'safety' than you get a cup of tea in the morning.
There are tests, which an electrician will undertake to check your circuits.
You seem to have the standard 'family friend' who is not availabe now and is going to certify the job when he is rescued.
You cannot do the job and ask him to certify it (that breaks BS7671). The job is notifiable, so you have to involve your LABC (look up Part P).

BAN has done his utmost to get you to do the job properly. None of his posts have been offensive (unless I have missed one and in 15 pages tghat is possible).

Dave you posted the following

Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:21 pm
Yeh I've asked the questions and now know what needs doing to update my system
Many thanks

You have demonstarted absolutely no change in you competence from post 1.
You are determined to go ahead with no appreciation of the risks or the requirements.


There is another element to the doctor analogy.
If Dave decides to start smoking, passive smoking may affect the people around him.
If he f***s up the installation (and I would query his ascertion in page 10 that he knows what he is doing) he could conceivably kill somebody.
Dave, if that happens you will face criminal charges and you will have no defence.
Part P was introduced to stop this type of work and I would say it is irresponsible to advise Dave as to how to
You are looking at moving a CU, Splitting circuits and reconfiguring a CU.
These are at the top end of the DIY work spectrum.

Please get an electrician.

I would also be surprised if doctors' were giving anonymous advice on internet forum to people wnating to start smoking, take drugs, get obese.

The last point I would make is that the internet is a great shield.
Would you call BAN autistic (or whatever the 'other' diagnosis was )if he was stood in front of you?

FWIW Given this thread is going nowhere and the level of personal attacks is completely beyond the pail, I would question why mods haven't deleted posts and locked this thread.

 

[SimonH2]

The last point I would make is that the internet is a great shield.

But then I'm not the one hiding behind a pseudonym

Would you call BAN autistic (or whatever the 'other' diagnosis was )if he was stood in front of you?

If he behaved in front of my like he behaves here, then yes I would. Mind you, using the old analogy of a forum being a bit like a groups of friends dropping in at the pub - there's no watering hole I frequent that wouldn't have barred anyone so "persistent". If the "other diagnosis" is what I think, then yes I have actually called someone that to his/her face.

 

[JohnW2]

BAN has not been in the slight offensive to Dave, apart from trying to tell him he is out of his depth. ... BAN has done his utmost to get you to do the job properly. None of his posts have been offensive (unless I have missed one and in 15 pages tghat is possible).

Good to see you - it's many Mondays since you were last around! ... I agree with the above, on all counts, but would add that BAS has not been alone. With just one significant exception, everyone who has participated in this thread has attempted to underline the fact that Dave is totally out of his depth and needs to get an electrician to do the work - even though it's pretty apparent that he is not going to take that advice. I also agree that, in this thread, BAS has not been offensive.

Part P was introduced to stop this type of work and I would say it is irresponsible to advise Dave as to how to

As above, I think that virtually all of us agree with that. As I said, there is really only one contributor to the thread who has (repeatedly) offered answers to any of Dave's incessant questions about 'how to do it'.

FWIW Given this thread is going nowhere and the level of personal attacks is completely beyond the pail, I would question why mods haven't deleted posts and locked this thread.

It is certainly going nowhere, and can go nowhere, so I suppose that, in itself, would be a fairly good reason to lock the thread. However, as you've partially said yourself, throughout the vast majority of the thread neither BAS nor anyone else has been in any way offensive. AFAICS, there is really only one, recent, post which, even though what it contains could be said to be very well-intentioned advice, one could describe as 'a personal attack which goes completely beyond the pail' - and that single post could be deleted if that were felt appropriate. There are certainly plenty of threads far more deserving than this one of being pruned or locked because of offensive comments and personal attacks.

It is perhaps rather unusual for you and I to almost totally agree about something but I think that, on this occasions, we probably do!

Kind Regards, John

 

[scousespark]

The last point I would make is that the internet is a great shield.

But then I'm not the one hiding behind a pseudonym

Would you call BAN autistic (or whatever the 'other' diagnosis was )if he was stood in front of you?

If he behaved in front of my like he behaves here, then yes I would. Mind you, using the old analogy of a forum being a bit like a groups of friends dropping in at the pub - there's no watering hole I frequent that wouldn't have barred anyone so "persistent". If the "other diagnosis" is what I think, then yes I have actually called someone that to his/her face.

I am not hiding either. I just believe that common decency would preclude anybody in any circumstance calling somebody autistic. I am not certain what the other diagnosis is, but can hazard a guess. In this thread BAN has not posted anything offensive. On the other hand, it would appear that Dave is determined to go ahead with no appreciation of the risk he is taking. IMO the only advice is to get an electrician and trying to get him to the level where he has a chance of getting this done safely is pushing it.

 

[scousespark]

FYI Forum Rule 1 reads
1) Abusive or unhelpful posts are not welcome. This is a friendly site and we ask that everyone is treated with respect! Abusive or unhelpful posts are not welcome on this site and are always removed! Keep it civil!

I don't know anybody who would resort to calling somebody autistic (or worse) in any public arena. I accept this may not be your experience, but the watering holes I frequent treat the less able with respect.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

BAN has not been in the slight offensive to Dave, apart from trying to tell him he is out of his depth.

I did also give him links to material and information he could use to learn how to do the things he is determined to do.

It's not

and there's no reason to think he couldn't learn to do the things he's decided he will do.

Apart, that is, from his attitude, which is clearly that he either doesn't believe he should have to know, or that there is nothing to know.

If it were rocket science I think this would be him:

 

[JohnW2]

FYI Forum Rule 1 reads: 1) Abusive or unhelpful posts are not welcome. This is a friendly site and we ask that everyone is treated with respect! Abusive or unhelpful posts are not welcome on this site and are always removed! Keep it civil!

It does.

I don't know anybody who would resort to calling somebody autistic (or worse) in any public arena. I accept this may not be your experience, but the watering holes I frequent treat the less able with respect.

I conceded that just that one post (out of 230+ so far) in this thread might be regarded by some as unacceptable, or even offensive (and in breach of the rules), and that the mods might therefore feel it appropriate to remove that one message - but, for whatever reason, that has not yet happened. Uncharacteristically, BAS has not reacted/responded to that post, which is perhaps one reason why the mods have not yet felt a need to act. As I said, I think the comment was probably well-intentioned, rather that being intended as an insult or attack, but I do agree that it was not really appropriate for it to be voiced in a 'public arena'.

I doubt whether the watering holes you and I frequent are appreciably different. If I personally thought that someone was suffering from autism (or alcoholism, or a personality disorder or other mental health problem) which might benefit from their 'seeking help', then I would certainly bring that to their attention (and/or to the attention of someone close to them, if appropriate), but certainly not in a watering hole or any other public place. I therefore agree that Simon should not have 'offered his advice' in public - but, as I said, that was just one post out of very many, which could easily be dealt with, and (IMO) not in itself a reason for locking the thread. As I previously said, it is (again IMO) the fact that the thread is never going to 'go anywhere' which might be considered a reason for locking it (although the OP might well then just start new ones!).

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

BAN has not been in the slight offensive to Dave, apart from trying to tell him he is out of his depth.

I did also give him links to material and information he could use to learn how to do the things he is determined to do. It's not <rocket science> and there's no reason to think he couldn't learn to do the things he's decided he will do. Apart, that is, from his attitude, which is clearly that he either doesn't believe he should have to know, or that there is nothing to know.

BAS, as I've recently written, I don't think anyone believes that you have been in any way offensive in this thread or that you have done anything other than to attempt to convey, albeit in your own inimitable style, the message which virtually all of us agree needs to be conveyed. All I would say is that, given that his attitude is such as you describe, there comes a point when it is reasonable (for 'us') to decide that continued hitting of our heads against the same brick wall is futile, and just a waste of effort.

Kind Regards, John

 

[scousespark]

If this was a pub discussion and somebody reverted to base name calling I would say the number of times it happens is irrelevant. FYI SimonH2 is a pseudonym (as are all of our usernames). I don't know if Simon has any history with ban, but this just seemed like a low blow and went a bit too far. I was really surprised that John also posted abuse. This is an advice forum. If you don't like what you read, you can ignore it.

 

[JohnW2]

If this was a pub discussion and somebody reverted to base name calling I would say the number of times it happens is irrelevant.

Firstly (if that's what you mean) I don't personally regard suggesting that someone may have an illness/condition that might benefit from 'help' constitutes 'base name calling' - although, as I've said, such comments/advice should not be given in public. As for the frequency, I was merely pointing out that deleting one message (out of many) would be a sensible alternative to locking (or even deleting!) the entire thread, if that one post were the only problem with the thread. You would not close the pub because of one incident of 'base name calling' (if that's what it was), would you?

I don't know if Simon has any history with ban, but this just seemed like a low blow and went a bit too far.

You might, of course, be right but, as I keep saying, I actually believed (and now believe even more, after some subsequent private exchanges with Simon) that it was well-intentioned advice - just inappropriately given in public.

I was really surprised that John also posted abuse.

What 'abuse' are you suggesting I posted? If you're talking about my endorsement of what Simon had written, since it had already appeared in public, there seemed little reason not to indicate that I "didn't disagree", since that was true. At the time, I realised that Simon's message might well get removed, but assumed that, if that happened, my 'acknowledgement' would go with it.

Kind Regards, John

 

[scousespark]

So now the post wasn't abuse, it was gentle advice to go for a test. Has this forum moved on from electrics UK to medical diagnosis.

Simon said he would be happy calling ban autistic, so I don't see this as gentle advice. My nephew has Asperger's, so I have a vested interest in the direction of this thread. If I was in a pub and some goon called a person autistic (once), I would be annoyed.

I have no idea if ban is on the spectrum, or has any form of disability. Calling him autistic (and implying he may have another disability) is a disability hate crime (or possibly an incident). If a menber of your family was similarly afflicted, would you be happy that it was only said once.

 

[JohnW2]

So now the post wasn't abuse, it was gentle advice to go for a test.

There's no 'now' about it. I have been saying all along that such was my interpretation. However, as I also keep saying, Simon should not have said it in public.

Simon said he would be happy calling ban autistic, so I don't see this as gentle advice.

I must have missed Simon saying that.

My nephew has Asperger's, so I have a vested interest in the direction of this thread. If I was in a pub and some goon called a person autistic (once), I would be annoyed.

I understand that Simon has at least as strong a vested interest as you do (as do I - see below), and that this was the reason for his 'advice' (again, inappropriately given in public).

I have no idea if ban is on the spectrum, or has any form of disability. Calling him autistic (and implying he may have another disability) is a disability hate crime (or possibly an incident). If a menber of your family was similarly afflicted, would you be happy that it was only said once.

FWIW, I do have a 'similarly afflicted' family member - although I'm not too impressed with it being called an 'affliction'. Yet again, it should not have been said in public. However, pointing out (privately) to someone, or someone close to them, that you feel that they may have a problem (be it autism, cancer, dementia or anything else) that might benefit from professional assistance does not correspond in any way to my understanding of a 'disability hate crime' - on the contrary, it is a responsible and compassionate thing to do.

You seem to be talking as if 'autistic' is a derogatory term used to insult someone (just as, say, 'spastic' and 'cretin' were in decades past). Not only don't I believe that to be the case (and am surprised that you should take that view) but I am all-but-certain that Simon was not using the word as a term of abuse.

Kind Regards, John