Id agree its a real mess in there.
Consumer unit layout
- Thread starter Belle427
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Thanks. Yes, I clearly did 'miss it'.
However, that begs the question as to what qualifies as a 'luminaire' (an interesting word, since I doubt that any English-speaking people other than electricians ever use the word, and many/most probably don't know what it means!). The BS7671 definition doesn't help me all that much. A pendant light presumably doesn't qualify (as a 'luminaire') but what, for example, about dangling chandelier-like fittings, wall lights, downlights, fluorescent/tube fittings etc.?
I don'gt know how typical my house is in this respect, but most of my lighting circuits (a good few of them) supply only pendants, wall lights (basically just lampholders with upward or downward-pointing 'shades/reflectors)and "dangling chandelier-like fittings" - and I'm really not sure whether any of that counts as 'luminaires'. The question is actually moot for me, since all my final circuits are RCD/RCBO-protected, but I wonder what people think.
Kind Regards, John
What makes you believe that?
Well, who knows - but I think one probably has to be a little silly to think that the BS7671 definition really includes a pendant (or, indeed, anything which consists of just a lampholder and shade or reflector).
What are you suggesting - maybe that, for some bizarre reason, the electric industry has chosen to use the word 'luminaire' to mean what the rest of the English-speaking world would call a 'light'? Indeed, if that were the case, a BS7671 definition (let alone a fairly 'complicated' one) would not really be necessary - or, at least, it could be simplified to just say something like "anything which creates light out of electricity".
Does anyone else have a view about this?
Kind Regards, John
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I would absolutely class a pendant as a luminaire.
I presume this is to cut the power when ppl are changing lamps and put their fingers in the metal contacts.
Another good reason for it is that a neutral/Earth fault could see the entire installation load current return through that 1.5mm^2/1mm^2 cable if the neutral connection to the meter is lost. I've seen it before and the cable was literally bubbling.
OK. Is there anything in a domestic electrical installation which produces light (other than neons/indicator lights) that you would not class as a luminaire?
If not, as I asked, what is this word 'luminaire' all about? - is it simply that the electrical industry decided that, 'just to be different', they would use a word which was different from what everyone else uses?
Kind Regards, John
If you wanted to address that, you would have to extend the requirement for RCD protection to things other than sockets and lighting circuits - since lighting circuits do not have a monopoly on 1.5mm² cables.
In any event, in the sort of situation you refer to, is a 1mm² CPC going to 'bubble' much more than a 1.5mm² one?
Kind Regards, John.
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A high proportion of 'luminaires' are Class II, hence nothing earthed in the vicinity to touch - so an RCD would rarely help (unless the person somehow had a path to earth from themselves which was under ~7.7kΩ). Similarly, a high proportion of lampholders (whether in pendants or other light fittings are plastic - so, again, an RCD would not help (with same caveat).
Kind Regards, John
Pendants are luminaires.
Even if they were not, lighting circuits in dwellings will still require RCDs, as it's pretty much inevitable that at least one light fitting will not be just a pendant but some other more enclosed or complex lighting fixture. Bathrooms for example. Outside lighting for another.
Even if they were not, lighting circuits in dwellings will still require RCDs, as it's pretty much inevitable that at least one light fitting will not be just a pendant but some other more enclosed or complex lighting fixture. Bathrooms for example. Outside lighting for another.
Fair enough - but, as I've asked Risteard, if that is the case, then what (if anything) is not a 'luminaire' - and, if the answer is 'nothing', then why is this word (which hardly anyone understands/uses) being used?
Kind Regards, John
Well, I did say that my house may be atypical, but my ground floor lighting circuits (which don't include any bathrooms or outside lights) have no 'enclosed' fittings (just 'things that dangle' and wall lights/uplighters - all with 'exposed lamp holders') - would you say that those would need RCD protection under this new reg (if they didn't already, which they do!)?
Kind Regards, John
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Yes!
The definition of "luminaire" I can find is:
"A lighting unit consisting of one or more electric lamps with all of the necessary parts and wiring."
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But use a board with space for potential expansion in the future.
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