Daily Express Today

[ajohn]

Big numbers get mentioned but sonthing else is need to get a perspective
Care’s budget. The Department’s spending in 2022/23 was £181.7 billion. The vast majority of this spending (94.6%, or £171.8 billion) was on day-to-day items such as staff salaries and medicines. The remainder was largely capital expenditure on long-term fixed assets such as new buildings or equipment.

Of the day-to-day spending, most (£155.1 billion in 2022/23) was allocated to NHS England for spending on health services. The remainder was allocated to central budgets of the Department of Health and Social Care and its other arms-length bodies such as the UK Health Security Agency.

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/data-and-charts/nhs-budget-nutshell

 

[gas112]

Well, as the tories ran everything into the ground, a lot of catching up was needed.

And the mouthbreathers and lackwits still think that the tories know how to run the economy......

yeah lets overlook the billions still being drained out of the nhs 14 years later with another around 50 billion to come just think how good an nhs we would have if all that money could have been spent on healthcare

 

[fillyboy]

yeah lets overlook the billions still being drained out of the nhs 14 years later with another around 50 billion to come just think how good an nhs we would have if all that money could have been spent on healthcare

People like to think that the NHS is the envy of the world, it's not, that's why no other country in the world has tried to emulate it. The Health Services that we envy such as France and Germany are insurance based, something like 5% & 7% of earnings, partly Govt run and partly private sector (not for profit companies).
Let's not kid ourselves, the NHS has been on it's knees since the 60's, Blair had a shot at sorting but made the mistake of overborrowing on PFI's and we know where that ended.
It needs to be sorted but it needs massive reform, fair play to Wes Streeting, that sounds like the approach he's taking.

 

[Brigadier]

yeah lets overlook the billions still being drained out of the nhs 14 years later with another around 50 billion to come just think how good an nhs we would have if all that money could have been spent on healthcare

Healthcare in a field?
Newsflash: you need buildings
That the tories didn't bother maintaining and, because the sums were so large and the right-wangers so ready to call Labour "the tax party", the money had to come from PFI.

"Lackwit" would be paying you an. (unmerited) compliment......

 

[gas112]

Healthcare in a field?
Newsflash: you need buildings
That the tories didn't bother maintaining and, because the sums were so large and the right-wangers so ready to call Labour "the tax party", the money had to come from PFI.

"Lackwit" would be paying you an. (unmerited) compliment......

yeah properly financed buildings not buildings that cost hundreds of millions that you end up paying billions for .
I bet you think the provi man is good value

 

[Brigadier]

properly financed buildings

To paraphrase Arnold Palmer (and how Labour had no wiggle room to drag the NHS off life support), "Dance with the lady you brung".

 

[Murdochcat]

And the mouthbreathers and lackwits still think that the tories know how to run the economy......

And a lot of voters think that everything can be improved whilst not paying more tax and NI

 

[ajohn]

Let's not kid ourselves, the NHS has been on it's knees since the 60's, Blair had a shot at sorting but made the mistake of overborrowing on PFI's and we know where that ended.

Your making me laugh. PFI's was a Tory idea. Someone other than the gov borrows the money. It's called privatisation. The same feature always figures.

Hospitals in B'ham. Best to mention another one first. A plot of land no planning permission needed so all sort of building practices including victorian and a cramped number of building. A separate out patients one. It happened to be the Royal Centre for Defence medicine. So what to do. Knock the lot down and build again. Bit of a problem continuous flow of patients. What happened to it.
On 23 May 2010 a 'Service of Thanks' was held at Selly Oak Hospital to celebrate a century of caring and to share memories of the facility.[10] After services had transferred to the new Queen Elizabeth Hospital, Selly Oak Hospital closed in October 2011.[11]
On 24 February 2015 the Trust announced that it had exchanged contracts with Persimmon for the sale of the site with outline planning permission for 650 homes
One thing this didn't mention is that it was also a teaching hospital which means it could treat the same range of conditions as a major.

The QE was much the same in general terms but rebuilding still needed to cope with patients. The PFI related to one that had to replace the other hospital as well. I'd hope there has been some thought about how long the buildings will last. What does a PFI include - the hospital is effectively owned by a landlord
PFI is a method of funding infrastructure projects such as NHS hospitals, which uses private funding to pay for upfront costs such as design, construction and maintenance. These costs are paid back over many years to the companies that financed the project – often banks and construction firms.
Then comes the bleats. We are paying millions in interest rate charges. We would be who ever borrowed the money. Worse still tot it up over a number of years - wow that looks even worse so spread the info about. It's not a valid way of looking at it. Share holders are purely interested in yearly return. Those in this general area are not that great and as little risk interest rates can be low.

Best not forget Blare did improve the NHS. This also included getting shut of dated kit and replacing it with more modern stuff. It seems some extremely dated ventilators were still kicking around in storage. They finished up in a Nightingale. No doctor in his right mind would use one of these unless they just had no choice what so ever - that's why this one was never really used.

 

[Brigadier]

think

I'd say that you ought to try it some time, but there are limits, even to my optimism

 

[ReganAndCarter]

It gets more and more like the Daily Fail.

Worse than The DM. Sister to The Sun, it's not much above that level. Can remember when The Express was a reasonable quality broadsheet. Now only fit to line a rabbit hutch

 

[ajohn]

People like to think that the NHS is the envy of the world, it's not, that's why no other country in the world has tried to emulate it.

Oh Filly. I feel sorry for you. Scandinavian and some other countries do.
Americans are told it's the best. US senators complain that the NHS buying power means they pay more at their end as a result. The NHS is dealing with real businesses not controlled privatised ones where profits are limited and controlled. Funny how often the bold part crops up.

I did a mad Scandinavia tour to see the midnight sun. Via a coach pick up in the uk. Don't, get flown nearer. One of the guides in one of their countries did mention their system. All are free. This particular one had an overnight stay charge. Not much really but paid unless people can't afford it.

The US at times tries to reduce their costs. One caused Biden a problem - he thought for a while and said we beat medicare. He eventually dug that out.

Taiwan has a highly rated health system. There NI covers it but it still has problems - the same ones crop up in many countries. Take the time to read about it

Taiwan's healthcare tale: Navigating Accessibility, Affordability, and Quality in an Ageing Society

How can Swedish companies embark on their growth journey through Taiwan's healthcare landscape, where accessibility, affordability, and quality converge? Opportunities prevail as there is also a medical workforce shortage as the healthcare providers and funders constant struggle to balance cost...

www.business-sweden.com

Go into one of their hospitals with a pain in your leg and you may well get a full blown scan to find out why. Not the way NICE work but the kit is needed.

I feel that there is one way NHS costs could be reduced. Take a tip from well organised manufacture. We have had some in the past. There are jobs that can be classed as directs. Those that are directly related to producing the product. Terms that have been used - works. Those would say be the people who work on a production line actually making the product. The rest are called staff. Ratios are looked at completely on that basis. Me on the design and development side - well I'm staff which I have thought is a bit daft but the growth of staff jobs does need extreme care and even when that is done there will still be unnecessary jobs added that could be achieved another way. I suspect there could be significant gains on the NHS in this area mainly due to it's size. Ok some managers have been sacked at times as no need for them but it's not as simple as that.