Here we go - Tabloids start the attack on the NHS to take blame from our government.

Don't be a dick. Virgin Atlantic don't look after hundreds of thousands of vulnerable, high-risk elderly people. There is no comparison, and any attempt to make a comparison suggests you have no compassion or care for what is going on.

People are dying in their hundreds and the state is sticking its head in the sand and hoping the problem will go away.
In PRIVATELY run care homes, the patients are paying a fortune to be given care, surely the care homes should have stockpiled ppe, as others are suggesting the government should, then they wouldn't have any problems. I can see no reason whatsoever that the government should be held accountable for the shortcomings of PRIVATELY run homes. State run care homes are a totally different thing, and will be provided by the government, as and when it can, but at the moment there is a shortage of ppe, not just in the UK, but elsewhere in the world. Do you think that ppe would have been worn for such a short period of time before being discarded in PRIVATELY run care homes (cuts into profits) all the time they are having to buy them?
 
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Being offensive is how the Daily Mail makes its money.
Being offensive is the modern way, the Sun does it, Trump does it, Katy Hopkins, ect.
These days you don't need quality or content to sell newspapers, there is more money to be made feeding people's prejudices and paranoia with silly stories.
I stopped reading the Mail after one silly story to many.
 
In PRIVATELY run care homes

OK, not all care homes are private, some are NHS, others run by local health authorities.

Exercise Cygnus apparently highlighted that the country was not prepared for a pandemic. The government buried the report, thought it would never happen.

The government is responsible for ensuring people are safe, that's why they set up regulatory bodies. They knew there was a serious risk, they did nothing, just like with Grenfell. So long as people keep supporting the government's inaction, disasters like this will continue.
 
The government is responsible for ensuring people are safe, that's why they set up regulatory bodies. They knew there was a serious risk, they did nothing, just like with Grenfell. So long as people keep supporting the government's inaction, disasters like this will continue.

Really? Tell me jonbey did you vote Tories or another party?

I take it most of the world apart from Singapore/NZ reacted in a similar fashion with similar results.
 
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OK, not all care homes are private, some are NHS, others run by local health authorities.

Exercise Cygnus apparently highlighted that the country was not prepared for a pandemic. The government buried the report, thought it would never happen.

The government is responsible for ensuring people are safe, that's why they set up regulatory bodies. They knew there was a serious risk, they did nothing, just like with Grenfell. So long as people keep supporting the government's inaction, disasters like this will continue.

It is the Government job to lead and not bury reports. So these private care homes will take guidance from what the Government tells them.
 
Really? Tell me jonbey did you vote Tories or another party?

I take it most of the world apart from Singapore/NZ reacted in a similar fashion with similar results.

We will have the most deaths in Europe. Bojo tactic was to keep enterprise and freedom of exchange going on. Experts in other countries were aghast at the UK initial response. Our Government messed up now and in the past by not stockpiling PPE and moving to JIT contracts.
 
OK, not all care homes are private, some are NHS, others run by local health authorities.

Exercise Cygnus apparently highlighted that the country was not prepared for a pandemic. The government buried the report, thought it would never happen.

Council run not NHS as far as I am aware. Had to sort one out for my mother. Some owned by one to a few people* and others by companies. While identifying extra vulnerable via medication use they ignored this area where the majority will be. Probably down to testing and PPE.

Cygnus was kept secret. Seems there has been 2 not 1. Highlighted PPE lacking yet still running stocks down from Flu planning levels, Previous problems with say SARS that never got here would indicate a shortage of a number of pieces of equipment.

Testing capabilities for viral infections on pandemic scale way out of what's needed. Probably not enough for a really serious flu outbreak.

Earlier lock down would have levelled off infections earlier. Some simple controls on movement would also have probably been of benefit. I think this area is down to the can't do anything about it approach which may take too much notice of the economy and murmurs about herd immunity. The economy is bound to be seriously hit. More attention at this point might have reduced the duration.

Ventilators, ventilators over and over again when other machine shortages were highlighted earlier on - main one dialysis - some are really struggling with that currently in cases where they aren't using methods that would normally be available in a real ICU and are needed there. Even tubing etc running out. Treatment is also being carried out based on the probability of survival.

Playing the big number game. Testing - total number of tests does not relate to people tested as some prove negative so need another. Others then need diagnosis another way. A break down of 1 billion or what ever the number was pieces of PPE to what it actually contains is not so impressive. Neither is tonnes of it.

Underfunded NHS. That's been true in some ways right from the start but it was only minor things that they wouldn't be inclined to treat because of too many people wanted it. Main reason is people not liking tax increases - Blare did manage to boost pay levels but the IMF reckoned he couldn't afford it. Austerity has hit the NHS as well. Also an attempt to do things with pay that had doctors on strike. PFI used to build hospitals as can't build them any other way and probably need more.

Answer when things are pointed out - hindsight is a wonderful thing. Well we pay experts to plan carefully and I'd be inclined to think that in some cases actions may be politically bent.

*Main concern of some owned by relatively ordinary people seems to be paying the mortgage on the property they use. My mom needed to be given a few pills a day. Some turned round and said that's nursing so extra £100 a month. She also needed help bathing. It's that sort of business in many cases money money money.
 
Our Government messed up now and in the past by not stockpiling PPE and moving to JIT contracts.

Didn't they start stockpiling for pandemics in 2009 but not the right kit? the 'expert committee' at the time deemed gowns and visors unnecessary.
 
Didn't they start stockpiling for pandemics in 2009 but not the right kit? the 'expert committee' at the time deemed gowns and visors unnecessary.

Tell me what type of pandemic that was modelled for?

You are so desperate. You would defend the Tories even if they took your first born. (y)
 
Tell me what type of pandemic that was modelled for?

You are so desperate. You would defend the Tories even if they took your first born. (y)

You're wrong, I accept some things could have been better handled, but let's apportion the blame fairly, let's not hang them out for calling 100 gloves, a 100 gloves, rather than 50.
 
Didn't they start stockpiling for pandemics in 2009 but not the right kit? the 'expert committee' at the time deemed gowns and visors unnecessary.

I think there has been political influence on decisions but it very clear PPE they had which is pretty standard stuff for infectuous viral diseases was run down. They have this apparently secret talks that highlighted it as well.

If an expert is asked about vulnerable people do you really think that they wouldn't think about people in care - actually as they pointed out they did help a bit but clearly not as far as they intend to go now so they did identify the problem. Also didn't these experts have some idea how much PPE, testing and gear would be needed if there was a viral epidemic. I just don't believe it wasn't worked out fairly well and then politically ignored.

There basic problem is lack of preparation and being way too far off what was needed if one happened. Very probably political decisions.

A case of this turned up on face masks in the brief today. Stupid reported didn't ask well - no mention of in riskier places. Question more or less ignored and passed over to advisor. She said that we pointed out that compared with social distancing the effect was small and gov makes the decision. Mrs Scotland gave more details than I had heard earlier - wash them at 60C. Personally as they can be killed off on our hands at much lower safe temperatures I think she has lost her marbles. She also mentioned not medical masks. Fine but where to get them from - easy from China but weeks to get here.

One thing struck me about food shopping - what better place for it to be spread via contact than the chill counters. How would it get there. Most things are packed in plastics. 3 days for them to die on plastic at 20C.

:( Brief got boring but think I heard comments about washing goods bought - reply yes some do - in europe. Actually some TV programs have mentioned it as well.

LOL we quarantine cardboard etc for 24hr+ and wipe plastic over with rather damp soapy water flannel.

Our total testing since it started is an enormous number but way way less than what the Germans have probably done. Big number game even though every one knows that we haven't been able to test enough. And of course they have handled it really well.
 
In PRIVATELY run care homes, the patients are paying a fortune to be given care,

welcome to the world created by neoliberalism: care homes run as profit for shareholders and directors, not for the residents.

majority of private care homes have to accept some funded places, which social services only pay £630.00
that means the private places have to subsidise.
 
You're wrong, I accept some things could have been better handled, but let's apportion the blame fairly, let's not hang them out for calling 100 gloves, a 100 gloves, rather than 50.

You mean like saying we will test 25k, or then 100k but talk about capacity.

The issue with the equipment is that there is a lack of PPE and they are using spin and massaging figures to give the impression that there was 1bn pieces - can you tell me how many pieces of equipment the NHS consumes in a day?
 
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