Damn! There goes a perfectly good train service…

[ellal]

I have friends whom work in higher positions at TfL, yes, the covid reduction in trade has left a black hole, but who are the sharehoders that you refer to? AFAIK, there are no private shareholders in London Underground.

Who do you believe benefits from the "prudential borrowing" that TfL claims takes place?

 

[Gone Skiing]

Who do you believe benefits from the "prudential borrowing" that TfL claims takes place?

Prudential borrowing is just borrowing to capitalise such things as improvements, upgrades, additions, expansion, etc., just like any commercial practice.
So the customers benefit from such Prudential Borrowing.
Of course there is interest on the borrowing, just as there is interest on any loan.

 

[motorbiking]

The difference between privatised services and nationalised ones is profit. Profit isn't a concern with nationalisation so a saving sll round

Let me phrase that another way.

The difference between privatised services and nationalised ones is competition. Competing isn’t a concern with nationalisation so being lean, providing good services and value for money isn’t a concern.

It made no sense to privatise the rail. But busses and energy have all resulted in better options.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Let me phrase that another way.

The difference between privatised services and nationalised ones is competition. Competing isn’t a concern with nationalisation so being lean, providing good services and value for money isn’t a concern.

It made no sense to privatise the rail. But busses and energy have all resulted in better options.

Have they? Really ?

 

[ellal]

The difference between privatised services and nationalised ones is competition.

Yep, privatisation is a competition to see who can make the most profits!

It made no sense to privatise the rail. But busses and energy have all resulted in better options.

No joined up thinking there...

Try telling people whose bus services have been axed because they are not profitable it's a better option...

And I'd love to hear your reasoning as to why privatised energy is a better option for the consumer.

And while you're about it, maybe you could tell us how the effective privatisation of the education system has benefited students?

Better still, how is the gradual privatisation of the NHS working out for patients?

 

[motorbiking]

Have they? Really ?

yes.

Do you think British Gas is the best energy provider? Do you think they top the charts for value and customer service?

 

[blup]

Let me phrase that another way.

The difference between privatised services and nationalised ones is competition. Competing isn’t a concern with nationalisation so being lean, providing good services and value for money isn’t a concern.

Privatisation hasnt resulted in meaningful competition, only a nominal regulation of prices set by (often) foreign owned cartels

It made no sense to privatise the rail. But busses and energy have all resulted in better options.

Stage coach got in with Thatcher at the outset and killed off the competition on buses. Energy is a joke. Options mean fake short term price competition aimed at acquiring market share.

 

[johnny2007]

I have friends whom work in higher positions at TfL, yes, the covid reduction in trade has left a black hole, but who are the sharehoders that you refer to? AFAIK, there are no private shareholders in London Underground.

You're right, on the face of it.
But unfortunately London underground is part of tfl and so it's influenced by its shareholders.
Let's not forget the Elizabeth line fiasco.
It was on budget and on time when the emperor took over and all of a sudden the project cost spiralled out of control and was delivered years later.
I'm not going to look at the costs, but I remember a figure of over £18M over budget (or was it £18 billion?).
Who benefited from it?
Surely not the taxpayers.

 

[johnny2007]

You're right, on the face of it.
But unfortunately London underground is part of tfl and so it's influenced by its shareholders.
Let's not forget the Elizabeth line fiasco.
It was on budget and on time when the emperor took over and all of a sudden the project cost spiralled out of control and was delivered years later.
I'm not going to look at the costs, but I remember a figure of over £18M over budget (or was it £18 billion?).
Who benefited from it?
Surely not the taxpayers.

Just looked.
Total project cost of £18.8 billion, £4 billion over budget.
In private pockets.

 

[motorbiking]

Privatisation hasnt resulted in meaningful competition, only a nominal regulation of prices set by (often) foreign owned cartels

Stage coach got in with Thatcher at the outset and killed off the competition on buses. Energy is a joke. Options mean fake short term price competition aimed at acquiring market share.

Stagecoach, GoAhead, Keolis all compete.

 

[Brigadier]

It was on budget and on time when the emperor took over and all of a sudden the project cost spiralled out of control and was delivered years later.

"Correlation should not be confused with causation".

It is well-documented on here that you detest Khan, but don't let that blind you to the reality that, in the main, large capital projects in the UK:

- go hugely over budget
- fall years, and often decades, behind schedule


Even if Khan had any blame in the cited project, I would bet it highly unlikely that it was any more than a trifling part.
The whole capital project structure in the UK is a licence to underdeliver and overcharge (the public purse), and has been that way for decades.

 

[denso13]

Stagecoach, GoAhead, Keolis all compete.

Not in my (large) area, it is a stagecoach monopoly. Many of the routes are publicly funded as they don't make a profit for the operator.

 

[johnny2007]

"Correlation should not be confused with causation".

It is well-documented on here that you detest Khan, but don't let that blind you to the reality that, in the main, large capital projects in the UK:

- go hugely over budget
- fall years, and often decades, behind schedule


Even if Khan had any blame in the cited project, I would bet it highly unlikely that it was any more than a trifling part.
The whole capital project structure in the UK is a licence to underdeliver and overcharge (the public purse), and has been that way for decades.

Interesting reading

A timeline of Crossrail delays

London’s Crossrail is over budget and onsiderably late: but it is finally here.

www.railway-technology.com

 

[blup]

Stagecoach, GoAhead, Keolis all compete.

Market domination and nominal competition more like. The private sector exists solely for profit, nationalised industries are public services, including the provision of employment on fair terms and conditions.

 

[ellal]

People have to be reminded that most privately owned utilities/public services are subsidised by the taxpayer...

And also when those private companies go bust, then the taxpayer inevitably bails them out...

And could anyone who claims that energy supply is better under privatisation answer this simple question...

Why did the UK government promise over inflated per KW prices to a foreign company to build nuclear reactor(s) in the UK?