Dewalt or makita?

[braniff]

Good point. In the supermarket/appliance example, you do sometimes find model numbers are unique to the supermarket etc.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Is that because they are made to a different spec? I would have thought that no matter how many whatevers a supermarket is going to sell it wouldn't be worth a manufacturer making a specially cheapened version for them.

I've always assumed (yeah, I know) that they invent the unique model numbers in order to hamper price comparisons, and/or to allow Dixonscometpcworldeuronicstesco to claim that they have the lowest price in the market for the Panasonic KJSDJWURJHWGDJU17823677FJDJGNV982KASJC-GB.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

The "tradesmen" will probably never work on anything as hard as the things I am drilling, cutting and hammering especially as most of them are working on wooden, cardboard modern housing.

Ever tried cutting cement board panelling? Or laid a 10,000 ft2 floor (25mm Verola ply) where every needed trimming in? Or cut Trespa toilet cubicles? Or screwed a few hundred boards on 150mm centres (153 screws a sheet, BTW)? Or fixed 50mm thick timber ledger plates onto electro steel tubular beams (10mm thick walls). In the last 5 years I've done all those task as well as a fair bit of listed building stuff, so do you believe me when I tell you there's not much harder (in timber at least) than 250 year old pitch pine. You also find lots of stuff (like panelling) in solid hardwoods, like oak, in old buildings. On restaurants and bars you'd be surprised at how much hardwood is still used. So quite a few of us work on all sorts of stuff, not just new build housing.....

But to top all that a mate of mine repairs dustbin wagon compactor bodies - and they're made from manganese 52 steel which is a tad harder than the mild steel crap used in narrow boats, etc. Granted, though, he uses 36 volt kit because the job kills 18 volt stuff frequently

TBF, Bosch & others have made power tools that were ill thought out when it came to operater safety, at the end of the day it's great having a powerful drill, but not at the expense of it potentially snapping your wrists.

So it was you who bought the 1st generation 1500 watt dry diamond core drill that Bosch withdrew from the market (coz' they couldn't get the clutch to work consistently, allegedly)

Manager of a non-chain independent tool shop told me that much of the power tools sold Screwfix/Toolstation/etc. are made specially for them, to a lower spec than the "proper" versions.

Certainly true of some o the Bosch blue stuff I've had from Screwed-Up (the model name, e.g. GSB21-2RE is the same, the actual model number 0 999 999 999 was different). I have the T-shirt for that drill, and it says "Mug!"

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Have you asked Bosch to reply, in writing, to that charge?

 

[SammyInnit]

Unlikely, if it's the same model number, but different in some way then that would be a contravention of the trade description act.

Milwaukee and DeWalt have done one off drills for them in the past.

Also I read (probably on here) that most power tools are made in China or eastern Europe, and the Japanese made versions are better. How does one actually find the Jap-built ones? Or is this a myth?

Out of the gate a good indicator is the brand. If you're looking at Milwaukee, presume it's all Chinese.

If you're looking at DeWalt, most of their rotaries are made in Germany, some hand tools in the states, other stuff around the Asian markets (China, Taiwan, etc.) As are some power tools.

Makita tend to make stuff all over the world, generally they have manufacturing in countries they're most invested in, they make a lot of stuff here in the UK, the Netherlands, Japan, China, Taiwan, Australia.

Metabo is mostly German but they do make some bits in China.

The list goes on but what you should always consider, regardless of where it's 'made' (salesman speak for assembled), you can bet a good chunk of the components are made in the cheapest **** hole they could find to make them in.

In terms of quality, it doesn't really translate into longevity, rather accuracy.

If I buy a Chinese Plunge saw and a Mafell id expect the Mafell to be absolutely accurate out the box but I wouldn't necessarily expect one to out last the other.

Other than that you will generally find one to feel more refined than the other. Fewer rough edges and maybe better made components but if you can put up with it, doesn't particularly matter.

 

[SammyInnit]

Certainly true of some o the Bosch blue stuff I've had from Screwed-Up (the model name, e.g. GSB21-2RE is the same, the actual model number 0 999 999 999 was different). I have the T-shirt for that drill, and it says "Mug!"

I got caught on a Bosch Blue cordless drill some time back. Was absolute junk - much like you'd expect from their green line. Went back for a refund.

 

[EddieM]

So it was you who bought the 1st generation 1500 watt dry diamond core drill that Bosch withdrew from the market (coz' they couldn't get the clutch to work consistently, allegedly)

No, got a 2nd gen one with modified double clutch, still a brute though.

 

[Ihavenojob]

If you are lucky, you may be able to find some German made AEG tools, same parent company as Milwaukee & Ryobi, my AEG cordless stuff is German & is on a par with my Milwaukee kit.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Have you asked Bosch to reply, in writing, to that charge?

I presume you mean the 1st generation Bosch GSB162-2RE core drill? In which case you can stop stirring the sh*t right now because back in 2011/2012 after the drill was introduced there were quite a few complaints about them either having clutches which cut-in way to early (as in this instance on the Bosch web site), or in a few instances way too late (surely potentially an injury issue?). The matter was discussed on several forums at the time, but the tool was quickly withdrawn and didn't go back into production for about 4 or 5 years - this I know because unaware of any issues we tried to buy one in that period (they were well advertised) only to be told by a Bosch dealer/repairer that they weren't available, and why (in his opinion). See also the cpomment by Eddie M above which references the issue as well. In the end we couldn't wait and bought a Marcrist (rebranded Sparky AFAIK) which wasn't long-lived at all (the clutch failed just outside of warranty). Or maybe you think by saying that I should argue the facts with Marcrist?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

If you're looking at DeWalt, most of their rotaries are made in Germany, some hand tools in the states, other stuff around the Asian markets (China, Taiwan, etc.) As are some power tools.

For thye European markets the routers are made in Slovenia (by Perles, who used to manufacture some of the Elu range) whilst the nailers are German - in the USA these producys come from plants in Mexico and apparently don't have such a good reputation

Makita have manufactured in the UK since 1991 and a lot of the heavier trade type corded (and in some cases cordless) tools you can buy here are made at Telford. I currently have a DSP600Z that's UK manufactured

 

[SammyInnit]

I currently have a DSP600Z that's UK manufactured

I do too, my jigsaw is UK manufactured too, that's the DJV182. I'm sure I've got some other tools I've noticed are UK manufactured too but I can't remember what.

 

[EddieM]

My Bosch blue were seemingly manufactured in Malaysia.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I presume you mean the 1st generation Bosch GSB162-2RE core drill?

No, I mean the generic issue of them making lower spec versions of products to be sold by Screwfix and Toolstation etc.

In which case you can stop stirring the sh*t right now

¿Que?

because back in 2011/2012 after the drill was introduced there were quite a few complaints about them either having clutches which cut-in way to early (as in this instance on the Bosch web site)

All that says is that somebody had a problem with his GSB 162-2 RE, not that his was faulty because it was bought from Screwfix or similar instead of a different type of retailer.

or in a few instances way too late (surely potentially an injury issue?). The matter was discussed on several forums at the time, but the tool was quickly withdrawn and didn't go back into production for about 4 or 5 years - this I know because unaware of any issues we tried to buy one in that period (they were well advertised) only to be told by a Bosch dealer/repairer that they weren't available, and why (in his opinion).

So Bosch withdrew all the versions of the GSB 162-2 RE, not just the lower spec ones they made for Screwfix et al?

Was it the Bosch dealer/repairers opinion that they did that to cover their tracks over the lower-spec issue, not simply that all GSB 162-2 REs were flaky?

See also the cpomment by Eddie M above which references the issue as well.

I can't see anything from him which says that Bosch made a special version of the GSB 162-2 RE to be sold in Screwfix and Toolstation etc which was a lower spec than the GSB 162-2 RE sold in other places.

In the end we couldn't wait and bought a Marcrist (rebranded Sparky AFAIK) which wasn't long-lived at all (the clutch failed just outside of warranty). Or maybe you think by saying that I should argue the facts with Marcrist?

Why would Marcrist be able to say anything about the claim that Bosch GSB 162-2 REs bought in Screwfix and Toolstation etc were made to a lower specification than GSB 162-2 REs bought in other outlets?

 

[SammyInnit]

My Bosch blue were seemingly manufactured in Malaysia.

Just had a look at my EC Grinder and that's Stuttgart. Not sure what my brushed one says or EC OMT for that.

A 7ah battery I have says Made in Hungary followed by some simplified Chinese...

 

[Deleted member 174758]

No, I mean the generic issue of them making lower spec versions of products to be sold by Screwfix and Toolstation etc.

Ah, in that case one instance I can quote, because I own the tool in question, is the GSB21-2RE hammer drill (not the GSB162-2RE). The Screwfix version of this drill actually has a different long model number (see below) to that quoted in any of the Bosch exploded parts drawings - and in fact when I was trying to track down spares for this tool even Bosch Technical in Uxbridge couldn't find any reference to the tool in their archives and eventually concluded (following correspondence with Germany) that Screwfix had ordered a batch direct from the factory which were given a different long model number because there were changes to the normal production UK model, but that "most of the parts should be identical". The one part which isn't the same as standard production tools, is the trigger switch - on official Bosch products there is a dial-in button in the middle of the trigger switch which allows the operator to set and hold a given rotation speed - on the SFX version the machine is fitted with a straightforward pull on-off speed without this speed setting device meaning that it is impossible to drill a long series of holes at a constant, repeatable mid-range speed (say 650rpm). The price difference on that particular Marquand switch to the plain switch (when sold as a spare by Bosch) was circa £35 a few years back. In other words. SFX were selling a cheapened version of the tool under the same general name as the rest of the market. Not illegal, but questionable?

To make it perhaps a little clearer (?) Bosch have long model numbers which are written thus: 1 601 608 034 which indicate market details, model variations, versions, voltages, etc (in that case a 110 volt laminate trimmer sold as a GKF600 in the EU but as a 1608LX in the USA)

All that says is that somebody had a problem with his GSB 162-2 RE, not that his was faulty because it was bought from Screwfix or similar instead of a different type of retailer.

It was symptomatic of problems they were having with the model at the time, but neither nor EddieM mentioned SFX in connection with the GSB162. The comments I made were to illustrate the point that even so-called quality brands build lemons from time to time (in the instance of the gen 1 GSB162 potentially dangerously so)

So I think you are perhaps conflating two issues.

Firstly that some large multi-retailers in the UK (most notably Screwfix) buy-in some products at a lower spec than the generally available product in order to sell at a lower price. Thus when dealing with the large outfits it becomes a case of caveat emptor. This is far more a commonly reported issue in the USA where the accusations of reduced spec goods has often been levelled at Home Depot, Walmart (owners of Asda) and others.

The second issue is that the big manufacturers don't universally produce good tools - they all make lemons now and again which are often hastily withdrawn (e.g. Bosch GKS68B plunge saw and Bosch generation 1 GSB162-2RE).