DIY a new ring main

[AJoe]

Hi all.

I'm looking into the feasibility of me installing a new ground floor ring main in a block built house.

I'm familiar with working with blockwork/plaster so setting in the sockets and cable runs are not an issue, and I'm also familar with placement restrictions and cable zones. It also has a concrete floor, but I'm also comfortable with SDS and channeling out runs between rooms.

My main question is about the feasibility of me doing this work and then calling in an electrician to deactiave the old sockets on the ground floor and wire in the new ones to the consumer unit. I do understand that most may want to have done all the work themselves before signing it off, but I would hope that as everything I've done would be visible and easy to access, there might be less of an issue.

Would like to hear your thoughts on this.

 

[EFLImpudence]

You need to contact the electrician before you start so that, if willing, he can supervise your work throughout.

Therefore you should ask him all the questions on how he would like it done.

 

[AJoe]

You need to contact the electrician before you start so that, if willing, he can supervise your work throughout.

Therefore you should ask him all the questions on how he would like it done.

Pretty much what I was expecting to do tbh.

I was really seeing if anybody would simply say 'lol no way'.

 

[Murdochcat]

Pretty much what I was expecting to do tbh.

I was really seeing if anybody would simply say 'lol no way'.

Don’t be surprised if lots of sparks aren’t interested. And fyi you will need to ensure your property is up to date with respect to circuit protection, earthing and bonding too

 

[AJoe]

Don’t be surprised if lots of sparks aren’t interested. And fyi you will need to ensure your property is up to date with respect to circuit protection, earthing and bonding too

I wouldn't be surprised at all, which is really why I posed the question.

 

[ericmark]

In theory, you can DIY by paying the fee to the LABC, (in all cases before the work starts) and they can either test it, or accept your testing. In Wales the fee is £100 plus vat for the first £2000 worth of work, England depends on the county, but giving you an idea of the cost, the LABC can opt to use a third party to inspect and test, if they do, they select who does it, and you pay, so as far as I was concerned I wanted the LABC to accept my electrical installation certificate, as that way it is cheaper, and also, although they issue a completion certificate they do not issue an electrical installation certificate, that can only be issued by the person in control of the work, i.e. you.

In England (Not Wales) electricians who have the third party bit, on their scheme membership, can issue a compliance certificate through their scheme, but again not the EIC, that can only be issued by the person in control of the work, so again you need to issue the EIC.

Of course, you can be employed by an electrician to do some of the work, in the same way as an apprentice or an electricians mate, however my son tried that, and vowed never again, as the owner did not do as agreed, and so it is unlikely any electrician will allow that.

these meters are required to be able to fill in the EIC, you're looking at least £110 to buy them, and £60 to hire, I have shown the cheapest I could find. And even with them, they do not measure continuity ohms with the minium 200 mA required by the regulations, but in real terms it is unlikely to cause a problem.

There are strict permitted zones for the cables, and the volt drop needs to be within 5% which means a maximum of 106 meters of 2.5 mm² cable, assuming a design current for circuit Ib to be 26 amps, that assumes 20 amps in the centre and 12 amp even spread. And no socket should have over 1.38 Ω line - neutral to comply when using a B32 MCB, and line - earth depends on earth type, but over 200 Ω considered as unstable, even with a TT supply.

The forms are a free download from the IET website, I would download them first and consider if you have the skill, knowledge and equipment to complete them. As already said, the ring will need RCD protection, and the RCD will need testing, with somthing like the first meter, as clearly you can't measure 40 mS with a stop watch, when I did it through the LABC the inspector wanted to see my test equipment, and also my qualifications to show I did know how to inspect and test, and he took some convincing, he finally relented when my son pointed out if he used a third party inspector he would need to be at least as qualififed as me, so would need to have a degree, not strictly true, but that did cause him to accept my signature, but he would not accept sons, and we both had the C&G 2391 exam under our belt which shows we are trained to inspect and test.

It is clearly up to the LABC inspector as to whom he will allow to do what. And after doing it all with mothers wet room, we decided to take the easy way out when it came to a rewire, mainly as our loop impedance tester had failed, so it involved buying new test equipment, so simply was not worth all the hassle to DIY.

 

[AJoe]

In theory, you can DIY by paying the fee to the LABC, (in all cases before the work starts) and they can either test it, or accept your testing. In Wales the fee is £100 plus vat for the first £2000 worth of work, England depends on the county, but giving you an idea of the cost, the LABC can opt to use a third party to inspect and test, if they do, they select who does it, and you pay, so as far as I was concerned I wanted the LABC to accept my electrical installation certificate, as that way it is cheaper, and also, although they issue a completion certificate they do not issue an electrical installation certificate, that can only be issued by the person in control of the work, i.e. you.

In England (Not Wales) electricians who have the third party bit, on their scheme membership, can issue a compliance certificate through their scheme, but again not the EIC, that can only be issued by the person in control of the work, so again you need to issue the EIC.

Of course, you can be employed by an electrician to do some of the work, in the same way as an apprentice or an electricians mate, however my son tried that, and vowed never again, as the owner did not do as agreed, and so it is unlikely any electrician will allow that.

View attachment 365339View attachment 365340these meters are required to be able to fill in the EIC, you're looking at least £110 to buy them, and £60 to hire, I have shown the cheapest I could find. And even with them, they do not measure continuity ohms with the minium 200 mA required by the regulations, but in real terms it is unlikely to cause a problem.

There are strict permitted zones for the cables, and the volt drop needs to be within 5% which means a maximum of 106 meters of 2.5 mm² cable, assuming a design current for circuit Ib to be 26 amps, that assumes 20 amps in the centre and 12 amp even spread. And no socket should have over 1.38 Ω line - neutral to comply when using a B32 MCB, and line - earth depends on earth type, but over 200 Ω considered as unstable, even with a TT supply.

The forms are a free download from the IET website, I would download them first and consider if you have the skill, knowledge and equipment to complete them. As already said, the ring will need RCD protection, and the RCD will need testing, with somthing like the first meter, as clearly you can't measure 40 mS with a stop watch, when I did it through the LABC the inspector wanted to see my test equipment, and also my qualifications to show I did know how to inspect and test, and he took some convincing, he finally relented when my son pointed out if he used a third party inspector he would need to be at least as qualififed as me, so would need to have a degree, not strictly true, but that did cause him to accept my signature, but he would not accept sons, and we both had the C&G 2391 exam under our belt which shows we are trained to inspect and test.

It is clearly up to the LABC inspector as to whom he will allow to do what. And after doing it all with mothers wet room, we decided to take the easy way out when it came to a rewire, mainly as our loop impedance tester had failed, so it involved buying new test equipment, so simply was not worth all the hassle to DIY.

That is brilliant information, and much appreciated.

This work is actually for my Mum's property as well, and I'm trying to see if there's anything I can do to keep costs down. I'll look into all of those suggestions in depth.

 

[ericmark]

I'm trying to see if there's anything I can do to keep costs down.

If that is why you want to DIY, then find a scheme member electrician, that is the cheapest option. If you want to proudly say I did that, then I admire your work, but if only cost, not going to be cheaper to DIY.

 

[AJoe]

If that is why you want to DIY, then find a scheme member electrician, that is the cheapest option. If you want to proudly say I did that, then I admire your work, but if only cost, not going to be cheaper to DIY.

No it's purely cost.

I've spent a decade or more over the years working on sites doing carpentry, groundworks, some plastering and all sorts so I'm more than capable of doing the physical chasing a fixing the back boxes in, I'm just being mindful of the fact that I may to it all perfectly well and still not get an electrician willing to come near it.

 

[Notch7]

No it's purely cost.

I've spent a decade or more over the years working on sites doing carpentry, groundworks, some plastering and all sorts so I'm more than capable of doing the physical chasing a fixing the back boxes in, I'm just being mindful of the fact that I may to it all perfectly well and still not get an electrician willing to come near it.

put the feelers out on say your local facebook village group and see if you can find a friendly electrician who will be happy to do it..........you might perhaps stand more chance if you say "I will pay for an initial site visit and consultation to detail the work so its done exactly to the professionals specification". That means you wont save all the cost of the work you do.....but the pro needs to be paid for the extra aggro.

Oh and a pro wont be wanting loads of phone calls asking advice and when he is scheduled to turn up, it must be ready. Ive had loads of customers say "oh dont worry "I'll get xyz ready for you" and it never happens. the classic one I used to get was decorating the ceilings and walls of an orangery. Or if it is done, theres paint splatters everywhere afterwards (that usually coincides with the fussiest of customers)

Tradesmen tend to be a tad cynical, theyve seen it all.

 

[AJoe]

put the feelers out on say your local facebook village group and see if you can find a friendly electrician who will be happy to do it..........you might perhaps stand more chance if you say "I will pay for an initial site visit and consultation to detail the work so its done exactly to the professionals specification". That means you wont save all the cost of the work you do.....but the pro needs to be paid for the extra aggro.

Oh and a pro wont be wanting loads of phone calls asking advice and when he is scheduled to turn up, it must be ready. Ive had loads of customers say "oh dont worry "I'll get xyz ready for you" and it never happens. the classic one I used to get was decorating the ceilings and walls of an orangery. Or if it is done, theres paint splatters everywhere afterwards (that usually coincides with the fussiest of customers)

Tradesmen tend to be a tad cynical, theyve seen it all.

Fully understood. I would feel obliged to pay for a before and after survey of my work anyway tbh.

I've worked as a less skilled tradesman myself, expecting me to move a room full of furniture as part of the £125 bill (for example). I do know there is far more long term responsibiliy/onus on an electrician signing anything off though.

 

[AndyPRK]

if you do the backboxes and cables

Let the spark do the front plates and connection, so they feel like they are doing something important.

 

[AJoe]

if you do the backboxes and cables

Let the spark do the front plates and connection, so they feel like they are doing something important.

Good idea actually. I could just leave them a foot of looped cable poking out of each box. Thanks.

 

[pete01]

If the cables are all covered over plastered in etc, most sparkys won't be interested.

 

[AJoe]

If the cables are all covered over plastered in etc, most sparkys won't be interested.

I was planning to leave all the channels and boxes open, conduit in place