Does Nato have

[transam]

The bottle to face down Putin ?

Putin has probably come to the conclusion that it does not ?

are there red lines in Ukraine that cannot be crossed

chemical weapons ?
Tactical nukes ?
Mass execution of ukranians ?

Is nato / Biden making the mistake of telling Putin what that will not do ?

Biden stating that US / NAto troops will not intervene or was it better to make no such statement just keep quiet ?

 

[Deleted member 292770]

.

 

[transam]

This constant ref to supplying Ukraine with defensive weapons

because of the worry of provoking Russia

how about supplying them with offensive weapons

a 40 mile long convoy of tanks and lorries just sitting there

why were not the ukranians given offensive / attack weapons in order to wipe it out or cause significant damage

missile systems

 

[Doug99]

It's nothing to do with NATO having the bottle. Putin only needs the slightest excuse to use his tactical nuclear weapons. These are small yield weapons which can be devastating but limited to the battlefield.
The UK does not have tactical nuclear weapons, only intercontinental ballistic missiles with large yields (475kt) as a deterrence against UK being targeted.
Our deterrence is nothing to do with NATO so would not be used to defend non UK countries.
I believe only the US has a tactical nuclear capability.

 

[transam]

The point is it would appear that Putin has the measure of nato / the west

And at the end of the day imo
The nato alliance will fall apart when push comes to shove

should Putin use chemical weapons the most that the west will do is call for some BS

UN meeting to condemn it

obviously in the strongest possible terms

what are the red lines in Ukraine

?


Or aren’t there any ?Putin has free rein ???? To do as he pleases ??

 

[fillyboy]

NATO ignored a drone that flew over Romania and Hungary before crashing in Croatia, that's sending out the wrong signal.

 

[transam]

Basically the reality of all of this is

The Ukraine will be abandoned to its fate and the Russians will take it apart brick by brick

no red lines

sure we ( west) will send some defensive missiles so as we can say well we did some thing

that’s about it really

 

[fillyboy]

The nato alliance will fall apart when push comes to shove

Dunno, Germany agreeing to pay it's fair whack, and much to Macrons annoyance, all talk of an EU army has gone well and truly out the window.

Plans for a European Union army were thrown out by EU Commissioner Ursula von der Leyen during a speech on the Ukraine crisis. Despite calls to ramp up military resources for an EU army, Ms von der Leyen noted that there needs to be close coordination with NATO to defend from any Russian attack in the future.

 

[gas112]

NATO ignored a drone that flew over Romania and Hungary before crashing in Croatia, that's sending out the wrong signal.

what do you think nato should now attack ukraine seeing as it was their drone ....Ignored i dont think so. There is now a big investigation going on why it was not detected and no warning that an unknown projectile went through 3 nato countries

 

[transam]

Imo we will be back to this again down the line as and when the ukranians surrender to Russian demands ?

Putin will try it on again in places like Finland ??

 

[The Samaritan]

Thankfully we don't have an evil leader that does not care one bit about the world and therefore it's not up to NATO
but the important three in NATO, France, Germany and England. If the Russians did not have a nuke, trust me NATO (UK/France egged on by the USA) would have been in there just like several others places they've turned into full-time cesspits EG, Iraq/Libya

 

[fillyboy]

what do you think nato should now attack ukraine seeing as it was their drone ....Ignored i dont think so. There is now a big investigation going on why it was not detected and no warning that an unknown projectile went through 3 nato countries

It was detected, NATO were tracking it, and yes, it is possible it was Ukranian, it should have been intercepted regardless of it's origin.

 

[motorbiking]

This constant ref to supplying Ukraine with defensive weapons

because of the worry of provoking Russia

how about supplying them with offensive weapons

a 40 mile long convoy of tanks and lorries just sitting there

why were not the ukranians given offensive / attack weapons in order to wipe it out or cause significant damage

missile systems

I thought we covered this. Defensive weapons can be missiles, attack drones etc. We are supplying weapons to help them defend themselves. Bombers might be a stretch.

My understanding is Ukraine had the capability to take out the convoy, but feared an escalation.

 

[albaPhenom]

No, NATO is a defensive alliance whose sole purpose is to defend the nations states within it against any unprovoked attack.

The reason they are supply defensive weapons only to Ukraine is because supplying offensive weapons would be seen as breaking its own charter and participating in an offensive war against Russia. They simply do not have the charter to do that.

It's also why we can't implement a No Fly Zone.

I think Biden made a mistake in emphasising that NATO would not take action, I don't see what advantage that brings us other than weakening us but then it's not like Biden doesn't have history of either saying things which are either pointless or outright damaging to us e.g. his doozy about Russia maybe just invading a little bit.

 

[The Samaritan]

No, NATO is a defensive alliance whose sole purpose is to defend the nations states within it against any unprovoked attack.

.

Wrong!!
So what happened in Libya and Iraq??
For better or worse both countries had their leaders and
you will agree no country in the world has a leader that has 100% support.