EICR - C2 - circuits 1 and 2 low insulation resistance reading

[dpm_dpmartin]

I've spoken to him just now... to put any speculation to bed.

He's recorded figures of "between 50MΩ and 100MΩ" on the circuits of concern from the last EICR, still quite low. But he has commented on the lighting circuit, no matter what he did, he couldn't get more than 5MΩ from that - still a pass but he'd like to have it checked in 2 years for degradation. He accepts something might have been missed, but I accept all this now that I've learned what I've learned. I don't have the EICR in my hands yet, it'll be a PDF he sends at the weekend.

Not forming part of the EICR, but he has recommended three downlighters be changed for fire-rated ones and new smoke alarms be installed. I've obviously given him the go-ahead for that stuff. This gives me, and the Tenant, the runway needed to consider longer-term action.

Worth noting... as I've just checked... the lights circuit (9) on the previous EICR was marked as >1000MΩ. Swings and roundabouts! Looks to me like the first Electrician used a kind of long-hand result reporting... anything that failed was recorded as <1,000MΩ... anything that was fine was recorded as >1,000MΩ.

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

FYI, I have provided a juicy update... but it's awaiting Moderator approval.

 

[JohnW2]

I've spoken to him just now... to put any speculation to bed.

Many thanks.

He's recorded figures of "between 50MΩ and 100MΩ" on the circuits of concern from the last EICR, still quite low.

Not low enough to be of the slightest concern.

But

he has commented on the lighting circuit, no matter what he did, he couldn't get more than 5MΩ from that - still a pass but he'd like to have it checked in 2 years for degradation. He accepts something might have been missed ...

That's odd - and, as you go on to say, ironic in relation to the previous EICR! As it sounds as if he is admitting, it's not impossible that something (like a TV amplifier in a dusty corner of a loft or whatever!) connected to the circuit has been 'overlooked' to give rise to the results.

Worth noting... as I've just checked... the lights circuit (9) on the previous EICR was marked as >1000MΩ. Swings and roundabouts!

Indeed - which proves that incompetence can work in both directions!

Kind Regards, John

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

Correct, but I edited my earlier update post to add the extra thought:

"Looks to me like the first Electrician used a kind of long-hand result reporting... anything that failed was recorded as <1,000MΩ... anything that was fine was recorded as >1,000MΩ."

...so, to him, 5MΩ (PASS) and >1,000MΩ (PASS) could be considered the same!?!?

 

[JohnW2]

Correct, but I edited my earlier update post to add the extra thought: "Looks to me like the first Electrician used a kind of long-hand result reporting... anything that failed was recorded as <1,000MΩ... anything that was fine was recorded as >1,000MΩ." .... ...so, to him, 5MΩ (PASS) and >1,000MΩ (PASS) could be considered the same!?!?

Yes, we've discussed that possibility before. However, it does not explain his "<1000" entries for circuits we now know actually have IRs of 50-100 MΩ - particularly given that he appeared to know/believe (per message he sent you) that only "anything under 1 meg" was a 'fail'!

Kind Regards, John

 

[winston1]

but he has recommended three downlighters be changed for fire-rated ones

There seems to be lots of confusion of when fire rated ones are required. What is above the three in question?

 

[JohnW2]

There seems to be lots of confusion of when fire rated ones are required. What is above the three in question?

I'm not sure that 'confusion' is the word but, as you imply, it seems that lots of people don't understand the requirements which I would think are quite clear and non-confusing.

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

This situation is kind of multi-aspect now and I'll try to close it off for everyone...

1. I'm happy to 'give' the second Electrician a bit of extra remedial work because I like the way he did things and I want to use him again, so a hundred quid or a bit more on some downlighters and other things he spotted and thought would be good to remedy is small beer. Plus it makes me appear like a caring Landlord. And, finally, he's gone and got access to the property, and he seemed to get on OK with my semi-recluse of a Tenant, so I'm actively encouraging this. Maybe she'll start to relax a little bit. So I fully support the 'noise-level' remedial / improvement work he has suggested... it is, after all, not a mandatory re-wire on an empty property!
2. The first Electrician has actually given me the fee back for the invalid EICR... he actually lived up to his word. I didn't have to get into a slanging match or anything. I didn't have to suggest a factual Checkatrade review. I just told him I'd got a new EICR which was SATISFACTORY and last night he transferred me the amount. This has confused me even more, to be honest, he seemed like he was out for the scam... his attitude change betrayed that (in my eyes)... but maybe it all was just genuine mistakes? He asked if he could see the new EICR but then still just transferred the money anyway, so I don't think I'll bother (maybe he wanted to do see how a proper one was done?) . Anyway, that's done-and-dusted and I'm better off for it.
3. My plan is to now open up discussions with the Tenant about her personal position (the reasons she is very keen on staying is a) her son's school and b) the low-ish rent) and when she might actually decide to move on under her own steam, as I don't want to initiate this... if she tells me that her son finishes at that school in a couple of years (he's certainly around that age) then that would give me options. Once the property is empty I can go for an easy re-wire along with a full refurbishment. If I get lucky then I may get a situation where the Tenant leaves of her own accord, on good terms, and I get the property back without a messy eviction (or tears)... but - for now - I have time, she has time... there is no impending deadline hanging over us.
4. The second Electrician told me that (obviously he's been in the house, a lot) the re-wire quote of >£3,000 for that property was "just outlandish"... we discussed whether the first Electrician had possibly even deliberately priced himself out of the job... but that doesn't make sense either... so we mused that it was probably a punt on his part... he'd done a bunch of EICRs for me, thought to himself - "this guy has a fair few properties, he's not that attentive" - so, when the first 'dodgy' one came along, he tried the re-wire route at silly money and just crossed his fingers that I'd just meekly accept it... when I didn't, and started asking questions, he really just wanted out of the situation ASAP.

I very much appreciate all of the input received here... please feel good about the time you've taken to advise me... it has helped me dodge a financial bullet and it has helped a family stay in their home and also know that it is safe. This has been a big hassle and I could have done without it... but I've learned a lot and that's worth something to me.

 

[SimonH2]

Sounds like a decent outcome for all parties - except perhaps your first electrician.

 

[securespark]

I very much appreciate all of the input received here... please feel good about the time you've taken to advise me... it has helped me dodge a financial bullet and it has helped a family stay in their home and also know that it is safe. This has been a big hassle and I could have done without it... but I've learned a lot and that's worth something to me.

And the great thing is that hopefully this thread will be the gift that keeps on giving, if others in a similar situation come here and read it.

Thank you for coming back with the conclusion.