EICR Questions

[securespark]

Apologies...started typing at around 10.30 this AM and did not complete the post until now....

 

[SimonH2]

Either it is correct that DI's cannot do EICR's, in which case, given the paperwork, this fella is misleading nay decieving MOP's.
Or it is incorrect (DI's can do EICR's) in which case they should accept responsibility for this issue and offer their full assistance to you in sorting it out instead of washing their hands of it

I can't help thinking this is more a case of them saying DIs aren't supported by us for EICRs. But, they aren't communicating this in a way that the average punter can understand. If they don't supply (whether printed or electronic) EICR forms for DIs to use, then, as suggested, it looks like someone misusing the logo.
And that's what I'd expect them to take seriously - if only to preserve their membership fees from full members

I have seen many a horror story "installed" by an NIC spark ...

Haven't we all
One time I was doing a network install, and while I was fitting sockets in floor boxes, I just automatically tightened the power socket plates - I assumed the spark had just left them loose to make it easier fitting my plates in the boxes.
Next day, the chippys commented that some of the sockets weren't working. MCB had tripped, so one of us reset it. It tripped again, and someone noticed that there was a pop from one of the floor boxes.
When I looked, the insulation was pierced by pressure where two cores crossed behind the socket - not enough space to actually wire the sockets
The sparky was called back and said It was my fault for screwing them down. He'd left them loose because he knew of this problem and thought it was OK leaving them loose

 

[JohnW2]

Either it is correct that DI's cannot do EICR's, in which case, given the paperwork, this fella is misleading nay decieving MOP's.

As I wrote before, I don't think they said quite that. Anyone, even a non-electrician, can undertake an EICR. What they do appear to be saying is that, since they do not assess a DI's competence to undertake EICRs, they cannot guarantee the quality of such an EICR, don't give a 'warranty' and can't deal with complaints - and that seems consistent with everything we've read, and also with the fact that NICEIC do not appear to produce DI-branded EICR forms (so goodness knows where the OP's one came from!).

Or it is incorrect (DI's can do EICR's) in which case they should accept responsibility for this issue and offer their full assistance to you in sorting it out instead of washing their hands of it.

See above.

Although clearly potentially misleading in some senses (and I would think something that NICEIC would probably take a very dim view of), it looks as if this guy has not actually lied, since the form (wherever it came from!) clearly admits that he is a DI. The misleading (deception?) part of it probably relates to the fact that (assuming the above is correct) he has, by using the NICIEC logo, probably implied that his EICR does come with a NICIEC 'protection'/warranty.

Kind Regards, John

 

[WhydidIstart]

I haven't contacted the guy who did the EICR yet, I think I will email him to say there are some issues with what he has put on the EICR and I have raised the issue generally with the NICEIC who gave the response at the start of this thread and see what he comes back with.

That may give an indication if he knows he's using the forms inappropriately and has put a C1 for the older CU just to get more work, or if that's his genuine belief.

 

[SimonH2]

Just out of curiosity, I was looking at the NICEIC website and their registration requirements for DIs - over £500 application and over £500/yr, so nice little earner for them.
Anyway, in their scheme rules it says :
Branded forms shall be issued only for Domestic Electrical Installation Work carried out or managed by You

Suspension of Certification

• You have made any wilful misrepresentation in connection with your registration, certification
• You have performed any act which, in Our opinion, is contrary or prejudicial to Our objectives or reputation
• You have made use of the Certificate of Registration or Our Trade Marks, Logos or Certification Mark in a manner which, in Our opinion, is likely to bring Us into disrepute

So using NICEIC logos etc on an EICR would fall foul of their rules and allow them to suspend membership. Whether they do or not is another matter.

Ah, get a bit further down, and there's more explicit language :
Misuse of Our Branded Forms, Marks, Logos and Certificate of Registration

• When offering to undertake the design, construction, inspection, testing or certification of Domestic Electrical Installation Work not included within the scope of your registration You shall not imply by the use of advertisements, Business stationery, invoices, certificates or report forms and the like bearing Our Trade Marks, Logos or Registration Marks that you are approved by Us for that work.

So quite clear there - a DI isn't approved for EICRs. That doesn't mean a DI can't do them, but if they do then they cannot use the NICEIC marks/logos/etc on the reports or otherwise infer that they are approved for that.

The only question left is what does "Domestic Electrical Installation Work" mean. They define it as :
Domestic Electrical Installation Work means the design, construction, inspection, testing and/or maintenance of work falling within the scope of BS 7671 and Approved Document P (Electrical Safety - Dwellings)
Now that's a bit vague. An EICR in a domestic property could well be described as "testing ... of work falling within the scope of BS 7671 and Approved Document P (Electrical Safety - Dwellings)".

Be interesting to see what the OP gets back from them.

 

[JohnW2]

Be interesting to see what the OP gets back from them.

Indeed. Furthermore, as I've been saying, as far as I can make out the forms the OP has must have come frome somewhere other than NICEIC (i.e. probably, at least in some senses, 'fake'), in which case another relevant part of the rules might be ...

You have made use of the Certificate of Registration or Our Trade Marks, Logos or Certification Mark in a manner which, in Our opinion, is likely to bring Us into disrepute

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

https://professional-electrician.com/news/tradesmen-fined-for-dangerous-electrical-work/

 

[JohnW2]

https://professional-electrician.com/news/tradesmen-fined-for-dangerous-electrical-work/

Interesting. I had to laugh a bit at ... "Dudley Council’s Strategic Director for People" - what on earth is the world coming to?! However, obviously more to the point:

We take a dim view of those who pretend to be registered electricians when they are not.
They pose a danger to the public and we will work with the appropriate authorities to protect those contractors who are legitimately registered and have the quality of their work assessed on a regular basis.
Anyone thinking about using our logo fraudulently will be caught and dealt with appropriately by the courts

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

You wouldn't want a Director for People who was not strategic, would you?

 

[John D v2.0]

https://professional-electrician.com/news/tradesmen-fined-for-dangerous-electrical-work/

Yes, not even using an insulated screwdriver for a start

 

[JohnW2]

You wouldn't want a Director for People who was not strategic, would you?

Dunno - I'd first need to know what on earth a "Director for People" was

Kind Regards, John

 

[SimonH2]

Not exactly a massive fine though - and most of that would be for the poor work. Had the work been up to standard then I suspect they'd have got barely more than a slap on tbe wrist.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Yes, I agree.

What if he had been a member and done the bad work?

However, the OP can use it for leverage.