Electricity Usage meter

[winston1]

Going slightly off topic, I would also suggest each room should have it's own RCD - ie be on an RCBO. I imagine it would be "more than a little annoying" to have your power go off because someone else has a faulty appliance. Even more so if you have to wait for the landlord to come round and reset it.

Yes but if the whole property is already protected by an RCD an additional one in line won't help will it?

 

[JohnW2]

Yes but if the whole property is already protected by an RCD an additional one in line won't help will it?

I would imagine that Simon was suggesting that the RCBOs for each room/flat should not be downstream of a common RCD!

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

Also, they are 30A devices - the circuits are 32A.

Does that mean we should stop using 30A junction boxes on 32A circuits?
Or 5/ 15A terminal blocks on 6/ 16A protected circuits?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

No - but I think there might be a difference between "over-driving" a measuring device and some lumps of brass.

 

[JohnW2]

Does that mean we should stop using 30A junction boxes on 32A circuits?
Or 5/ 15A terminal blocks on 6/ 16A protected circuits?

Given that there are pedantic people around, what surprises me is that, decades after 6A/16A/32A (rather than 5A/15A/30A) circuits became the norm, we are still seeing nearly all JBs, connector blocks etc. 'rated' at 5A/15A/30A.

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

I would think whatever its rating, it would need to have a margin in there: after all, even if it were a 30A MCB protecting the circuit, it wouldn't switch off at 30.01A.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I was thinking of possible accuracy problems, but I guess these tenants aren't running 7kW of heating in their rooms....

 

[JohnW2]

I would think whatever its rating, it would need to have a margin in there: after all, even if it were a 30A MCB protecting the circuit, it wouldn't switch off at 30.01A.

Of course, but the 'pedants' would presumably be concerned about putting 30.01A through a JB rated at 30A!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

They would have to be totally unaware of fusing factors etc.

 

[salawiner]

I'm a little nervous to respond - looks like I've kicked a hornet's nest!

To answer some of the points - Some tenants have had kettles/microwaves/fridges in their rooms - I have no problem with that. Having a current limiting device to stop them doing something is not what I want - what I actually want is to allow them to have heaters if they want to - I just don't want to pay for them!!

Essentially What I am wanting is to say to the tenants 'do what you want, but if your usage is excessive you'll get a bill for the excess'. I'm not your typical landlord - I run a Fish & Chip shop under the flats, so my energy usage is already through the roof, but I don't want them taking the pi$$. I won't be setting the included limit low, if anything I'll be generous. I just want protection from massive bills.

As an example, I have a tenant who has had the same flat for five years, about 2 years ago he had an electric heater on 24/7 - even when he was not in the building. My electricity bill that month was up by more than his total rent. I didn't kick him out. I didn't charge him extra. I just told him in no uncertain terns 'don't do that!'.

The problem is that while I'm a fairly easy going landlord, and might even be a bit too generous - Without some way of monitoring the usage of each room I have no way of protecting myself from all three tenants deciding to put heaters on 24/7, and no way of recouping any excessive bills because of it.



So, from the answers, the solutions seem to be:

Similar meters to those originally mentioned (from a more trustworthy source & manufacturer) in the same CU replacing the un-used RCB's. The wiring inside the CU might be difficult, but the installation would be compact.

A 2nd enclosure with the meters inside. Probably the most expensive option, and need space for the extra enclosure.

Or three separate stand-alone meters. About the same cost as the meters in the CU, but need extra space, and the wiring will be on display (the CU is in the hallway), so this could look messy.

 

[JohnW2]

.... what I actually want is to allow them to have heaters if they want to - I just don't want to pay for them!! ... Essentially What I am wanting is to say to the tenants 'do what you want, but if your usage is excessive you'll get a bill for the excess'. ... I won't be setting the included limit low, if anything I'll be generous. I just want protection from massive bills. ... So, from the answers, the solutions seem to be: .....

That all sounds very sensible and laudable.

You presumably don't intend to do the electrical work yourself, so the obvious course would be for you to discuss the various options with an electrician, who could take the local practicalities (space etc.) into account as well as everything else (relative cost etc.).

As has been pointed out to you, although your approach sounds very reasonable and well-intentioned, there are all sorts of rules/laws about "re-selling" electricity (to protect tenants from landlords who are a lot less decent than you!). For example, if the metering is to be used as the basis for charging tenants for 'excess' usage, there could well be a legal requirement for the meters to be 'certified' (as accurate) in some way (as is the case with the electricity meters which we all have).

Kind Regards, John

 

[SimonH2]

As has been pointed out to you, although your approach sounds very reasonable and well-intentioned, there are all sorts of rules/laws about "re-selling" electricity (to protect tenants from landlords who are a lot less decent than you!). For example, if the metering is to be used as the basis for charging tenants for 'excess' usage, there could well be a legal requirement for the meters to be 'certified' (as accurate) in some way (as is the case with the electricity meters which we all have).

Doesn't look like it, though they'd have to be reasonably accurate - seems you are allowed to estimate (eg splitting the bill 'n ways') as long as the method is reasonable and explained to the tenant in advance.
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publications/74486/11782-resaleupdateoct05pdf

 

[Steven Prentice]

I would still be wary about the metering option and possible legal issues.

Another reason I would be wary about that is that you are a good landlord and probably have good tenants (you still trust them!), what would you do if you bill one for say £50 excess electricity.. and they refuse to pay? Would you evict a tenant of 2 years for £50 and loose more than that while yiou relet the room.. or just let it go (and they rack up another £50 the next month). Them paying you is all done on trust really, the same trust that you would have f yiu simply said "please no heaters on 24 hours a day"

A thid option apart from limiting what they can get might be some sort of prepayment meter in each room - your electrician would be able tosort that - and you can simply give them a months worth of electricity credit tokens when they pay the rent,,, and when they run out you just sell them more t the agreed rate.

 

[bernardgreen]

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publications/74486/11782-resaleupdateoct05pdf