Electrics to Shed - dodgy advice?

[totallyspies]

What we are dicussing here is NOT about the regs but Part P. Regs r not law. Part P is.
SI 2006/652 IS law and I quote from that

(c) at the end of paragraph 3 add—



" (c) pre-fabricated equipment sets and associated flexible leads with integral plug and socket connections.";

and from ODPM explanitary document reguarding Part P amendments


iii. to allow work on prefabricated equipment sets and associated flexible leads
with integral plug and socket connections not to be notified unless carried
out in a special location

 

[totallyspies]

OK chaps, end of round 2.

So you can either do it to the spirit of the law / regulations and be confident that it is all above board and fit for purpose -- or you can interpret the wording to do it the cheapest and easist way and probably get away with it.

Personally, I like to go with getting it done in the spirit of the law and be sure even if it costs a bit more.

I appreciate all the advice. Cheers

Well put SAM but if you did it in the way I suggest you are not "getting away with it", its perfectly legal. Cheers

 

[totallyspies]

but any electrician doing this work for profit would be a cowboy to install such an arrangement.

So by your definition, if I did it for free, it would be ok? hmmmm

 

[dingbat]

Actually, TS, this thread was not about what you decided it should have been about.

Sam wanted his shed wired up properly but was concerned about a Part P workaround that an unregistered electrician had suggested. I advised that this solution was incorrect, explained why and suggested he get some more quotes. I stand by that advice.

For some reason you thought he wanted an extension lead and set out to prove an irrelevant point. I'm fairly sure that if Sam wanted an extension lead he wouldn't have called in an electrician to quote. After all, that exception is expressly so that homeowners can buy such kit off the shelf and plug it in without fear of breaking the law. (And I'm pretty sure any electrician called on to supply an extension lead would suggest he went and bought one from B & Q.)

So, I wish you luck in your quest to enlighten the world.

By the way, if you did it for free you would be:

A) Not trading anyway,

B) A philanthropist... and/or

C) Broke.

 

[totallyspies]

Actually, TS, this thread was not about what you decided it should have been about.

You are correct the start of the thread wasnt. But YOU made the point that it is a cowboy way to do it. I showed you it wasnt.Sam wanted his shed wired up properly but was concerned about a Part P workaround that an unregistered electrician had suggested. I advised that this solution was incorrect, explained why and suggested he get some more quotes. I stand by that advice.[/i]

Not arguing about that at all.

For some reason you thought he wanted an extension lead

No I didnt, I never said "I think he wants an extension lead" just said this is a way he could solve his problem


and set out to prove an irrelevant point.

The law isnt irrelevant.

I'm fairly sure that if Sam wanted an extension lead he wouldn't have called in an electrician to quote. After all, that exception is expressly so that homeowners can buy such kit off the shelf and plug it in without fear of breaking the law. (And I'm pretty sure any electrician called on to supply an extension lead would suggest he went and bought one from B & Q.)

So, I wish you luck in your quest to enlighten the world.

Thanks, but im not trying to enlighten the world, that would be inpossible. Just trying to enlighten SAM.


By the way, if you did it for free you would be:

A) Not trading anyway,
Whats that got to do with the law. Part P applies to all electrical work wether chargable or not.

You said

if any electrician were to charge for it , he would be a cowboy.

By YOUR definition if you dont charge, the method I suggested would be fine.

B) A philanthropist... and/or

C) Broke.[/quote]

Yes you are correct . Not charging for work could be seen as philanthropic.


Funny how you didnt counter my correcting you about the reg you quoted or the SI. Why not?

 

[dingbat]

Oh Jeez... you win? Is that what you want? Okay, you're absolutely right about everything...

Because I just can't be ar*ed any more.

 

[totallyspies]

Oh Jeez... you win? Is that what you want? Okay, you're absolutely right about everything...

Because I just can't be ar*ed any more.


Or, more likely your statments are not precise and factual.


Seems to me your willing to argue until someone challenges you with facts and then you resort to sarcastic comment.

If you post things that are contrary to actual facts don't expect others more knowledgeable to not put their case.[/quote]

 

[dingbat]

Look, it's fine, it really is. But if you read back through the whole thread you'll see that you were so anxious to make a point that was irrelevant to the discussion in hand (Sam was intending to employ an electrician to do a proper job) that you started to go off the rails with your home-made-extension-lead-made-out-of-SWA example.

And does that really comply with the "pre-fabricated equipment sets and associated flexible leads with integral plug and socket connections" Really? Or just a way of twisting things to suit you? I don't think the pre-fabrication is intended to be carried out in-situ, rather that 'equipment sets' are bought off the shelf and suitably CE-marked.

I am well aware of what is and is not, law and I fully understand the scope of Part P. I chose to dismiss your argument because I genuinely believed it to be inconsequential to the matter under discussion and unhelpful to the original poster.

Regardless of the fact that BS 7671 is non-statutory, have a good read through Approved Document P and see just how many references to BS 7671 there are. Whilst this may not be the only possible method of achieving compliance it is the only way that is recognised by the numerous self-certification schemes. A fair deduction then that registered sparks are expected to comply with the spirit and letter of the regs, regardless of their legal status.

But that's okay, because registered electricians are too busy gaining quality work as a result of being registered to worry about legal nit-picking.

So there you go. And that really is my last word on the matter. I'm in the middle of moving house and I'll be offline for quite some time after tomorrow... But I did enjoy our little chat.

 

[totallyspies]

Look, it's fine, it really is.

What is? Please be specific.


But if you read back through the whole thread you'll see that you were so anxious to make a point that was irrelevant to the discussion in hand (Sam was intending to employ an electrician to do a proper job) that you started to go off the rails with your home-made-extension-lead-made-out-of-SWA example.


Not "homemade", "preassembled" CE marked by a manufacturer.

And does that really comply with the "pre-fabricated equipment sets and associated flexible leads with integral plug and socket connections"

Clearly it does. Look at the information on their website.
http://www.greenbrook.co.uk/

or

http://www.bradshawsponds.co.uk/prodtools/bradprodcable.htm


Really? Or just a way of twisting things to suit you?

What am i twisting? and how?

I don't think the pre-fabrication is intended to be carried out in-situ,

Correct it isnt.


rather that 'equipment sets' are bought off the shelf and suitably CE-marked.

Exactly!

I am well aware of what is and is not, law and I fully understand the scope of Part P. I chose to dismiss your argument because I genuinely believed it to be inconsequential to the matter under discussion and unhelpful to the original poster.


Clearly you dont. Part P applies only to fixed wiring. This is not fixed wiring.

Sure, "the regs" may well say they it doesnt comply with Bs7671, but that actually means nothing in law. The reason these sets are prefabricated is to get around the matter of notifying to BC.



Regardless of the fact that BS 7671 is non-statutory, have a good read through Approved Document P and see just how many references to BS 7671 there are.

Yes there are lots of references to it. But as you clearly stated above, NOT statutory



Whilst this may not be the only possible method of achieving compliance it is the only way that is recognised by the numerous self-certification schemes.


Well seeing as this is NOTHING to do with them, who cares what they recognise or not?

A fair deduction then that registered sparks are expected to comply with the spirit and letter of the regs, regardless of their legal status.

But that's okay, because registered electricians are too busy gaining quality work as a result of being registered to worry about legal nit-picking.

Are they? How do you know?

If your registered, why are YOU posting in the middle of the afternoon? Surely you would be out getting "quality" work? Whatever that means!



So there you go. And that really is my last word on the matter. I'm in the middle of moving house and I'll be offline for quite some time after tomorrow...

How convienient

But I did enjoy our little chat.


Me too

 

[supersparky]

Ts, you just got completely outgunned mate.

lets see, a registerd electrician running swa up the garden and then plugging it in, (which, btw IS fixed wiring and its also not a pre-assembled kit, its a home grown kit-end of)and hes going to get lots of work doing that isnt he? i think i might try that on one of my council jobs, "dont worry mate, this plug here....well...dont take it out, thats your upstairs lights....and this one here, thats your upstairs ring, and this one, thats your hot water tank, and this one here is your shower, notice its a big blue CEE 63amp, dont worry, its still not fixed wiring

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Part P applies only to fixed wiring. This is not fixed wiring.

Then please explain this, from the description of the Armadillo system you referenced:

On one end of the armoured cable are two weatherproof switches. These are fixed at a convenient point such as close to the back door.

 

[JamesA]

What about powering your shed with solar panels charging up old car batteries?
Of course you might run out of power half way through cutting a piece of wood...

 

[sam8364]

Blimey, light fuse, retire to safe distance.

I did not mean to cause people all this stress when I asked the first question. Just after some advice - and i was very grateful for the time people took to help me out.

I think I shall actually go for some solar panels and a shift system of hyperactive hamsters in my new patented hamster wheel generation system. That way, I can avoide Part P altogether. Or can I.........

 

[Pensdown]

I think I shall actually go for some solar panels and a shift system of hyperactive hamsters in my new patented hamster wheel generation system. That way, I can avoide Part P altogether. Or can I.........

Just make sure the Hamsters are from the UK otherwise you will start another argument

 

[Steve]

Just make sure the Hamsters are from the UK otherwise you will start another argument

Wouldn't want slogger involved - using foreign labour . . .