EU unhappy with astrazeneca

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

And that is exactly my point, everything in the link above is speculation by an EU trying to sling mud at AZ and does not even refer explicitly to AZ supplying the UK.

If you ever find any significant evidence of AZ shipping anything more than token doses to the UK, i'll happily apologise. When you don't find that evidence, will you?

Ahh, so when I do provide the significant evidence, you dismiss it without any counter evidence, significant, insignificant, imaginary, fake, in fact absolute nothing, other than your opinion.
I'll repeat for you:

In fact, EU officials point out to me that EU money went into upgrading the facilities in the UK and that they fully expected it to be operational for them...
the UK sites should be used to transport the vaccines across the continent.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55822602
​

So the bottom line is AZ took money from EU to upgrade the UK plants, to the benefit of UK citizens. They couldn't benefit EU citizens because approval in EU had not yet been sought.
When EU approval was about to be granted, AZ denied the EU any of the vaccines produced in UK plants.

Now where would you like to place the blame for the furore?

 

[durhamplumber]

I suspect anyone that provides an alternative viewpoint eventually resembles your description due to the heckling and bullying they receive for daring to hold an alternative opinion.

Nothing to do with "daring to hold an altetnative opinion"..Ellal is 99% about causing as much unpleasantness and rudeness as possible...Look back over 4 year of his posts, educate yourself then we can chat..You can waffle on with your wordy long winded hypothesis as much as you like..You are still uninformed and wrong.

 

[durhamplumber]

I suspect anyone that provides an alternative viewpoint eventually resembles your description due to the heckling and bullying they receive for daring to hold an alternative opinion.

Nothing to do with "daring to hold an altetnative opinion"..Ellal is 99% about causing as much unpleasantness and rudeness as possible...Look back over 4 year of his posts, educate yourself then we can chat..You can waffle on with your wordy, long winded hypothesis as much as you like..You are still uninformed and wrong.

 

[durhamplumber]

Whether they actually morph into that image, or whether the majority viewpoint assumes a consensus of opinion is, currently, an issue of contention.

The difference is Robby...You are a newcomer..We have had at least 4 years of Ellal..Who is more informed? Or have you been on here along time under various names?

 

[sxturbo]

Here's a snippet:

She announced that another meeting will take place Wednesday. Earlier in the day, Kyriakides announced the plans for the next export controls, while making clear the Commission's suspicions that AstraZeneca had shipped vaccine elsewhere.

"The European Union wants to know exactly which doses have been produced by AstraZeneca and where exactly so far and if or to whom they have been delivered," Kyriakides said
One EU diplomat said AstraZeneca gave two reasons for the production shortfall, related to materials sourcing and manufacturing problems at a plant in Belgium, but the diplomats said the company had failed to substantiate those claims with evidence. That led to speculation among Commission officials and EU national officials that AstraZeneca had shipped doses manufactured in Belgium to other customers, only to realize that production was not moving fast enough to meet contractual obligations to the EU
https://www.politico.eu/article/enr...ortfall-eu-calls-for-vaccine-export-controls/


In fact, EU officials point out to me that EU money went into upgrading the facilities in the UK and that they fully expected it to be operational for them...
the UK sites should be used to transport the vaccines across the continent.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55822602​

I'll add to it, as I find.
I'll expect a full apology from you when my claim is substantiated.

Just another bit of info unrelated to the current discussion, but I thought I'd add it here rather than look for another more suitable place for it, from the same link as above:

AstraZeneca was awarded the EU's first and most anticipated vaccine contract in August, and in exchange received a giant prepayment.
Kyriakides on Monday said the EU had yet to see dividends. "The European Union has pre-financed the development of the vaccine​

yes bobby, and so far they have found zero evidence that the vaccine has been shipped elsewhere.

no one is disputing that the EU paid to develop the production lines in advance to try and hit the target number of doses by a particular date. (in fact i think it was you who disputed this). The EU also wasnt first, but it was the first contract the EU had signed, 3 months later than everyone else.

 

[durhamplumber]

Whether they actually morph into that image, or whether the majority viewpoint assumes a consensus of opinion

Or more straightforward....Use at least 4 years of postings to figure it out.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

yes bobby, and so far they have found zero evidence that the vaccine has been shipped elsewhere.

no one is disputing that the EU paid to develop the production lines in advance to try and hit the target number of doses by a particular date. (in fact i think it was you who disputed this). The EU also wasnt first, but it was the first contract the EU had signed, 3 months later than everyone else.

Yes and that EU money was spent in upgrading UK plants, but AZ refused to supply EU from those UK plants, claiming the UK contract restricted them, which we later found out was nonsense.
It is easy to understand why EU were deeply dissatisfied with AZ explanations, and why their suspicions were aroused.
AZ have since partially backtracked,
It is easy to understand who created the furore, and why.

If you pay for a production plant, but the products of that plant are sold to a different customer, and the supplier is vague and obtuse in their explanations, claiming an imaginary priority order, it is the same as evidence that the products have been shipped elsewhere.
EU's suspicions were correct.

 

[sxturbo]

Yes and that EU money was spent in upgrading UK plants, but AZ refused to supply EU from those UK plants, claiming the UK contract restricted them, which we later found out was nonsense.
It is easy to understand why EU were deeply dissatisfied with AZ explanations, and why their suspicions were aroused.
AZ have since partially backtracked,
It is easy to understand who created the furore, and why.

i cannot find anywhere that the UK have stated we dont have a clause in the contract,

the EU was dissatisfied, and did not believe what they were being told, however they have failed to show any evidence that AZ were lying and shipped supplies elsewhere.

there is no evidence that EU money was spent on the UK plant

AZ have offered 9 million more doses, but have not stated how or where these doses are coming from.

i believe that the UK have offered to step in to try and defuse the situation and allowed 9 million doses to ship from the uk plant, in return for the pfizer vaccine not to be held by europe, i reckon this was the conversation between ursala and bojo, but this is my own thoughts and conjecture and should not be treated as fact.

that or whn AZ said we are going to supply eu 50 million less doses than agreed they kept the 9 million in there back pocket...

 

[ajohn]

It really is easy to see why the EU had a tiff with AZ. To stick a rocket up their backsides. Plus of course transparency on all vaccines. Some figures on doses per capita across counties are a bit odd. The reason for Israel's is obvious. A couple of oil rich - I wonder. No idea which ones or where from or where all plants that can make them are.

The other point is that the announcement was intent and I don't think the lady who proposed them could put them into action without agreement from member states. In fact from what I remember that is what she said. Could be wrong but don't think so.

 

[durhamplumber]

Of course the way to avoid such bullying, heckling and forcing the adoption of such images (by either process, whichever is the correct version) is to restrict the discussion to the issues, rather than attack the proponent. But I guess that's never going to happen on here.

..Cast Ellal as victim as much as you like.The only thing Ellal is victim of is his own rudeness and arrogance...Probably similair to you but you fancy yourself as a bit of a wordsmith and are a bit more tactful....The pair of you seem to think this is The Oxford Union Debating Society and it narks you to death that a few tradesmen give as good as they get!...I stumbled on this site via my job..What is your excuse? Will the French strummer Soc not let you in?

 

[ajohn]

cannot find anywhere that the UK have stated we dont have a clause in the contract

You wont either unless it is published. Boris saying that pre existing contract clauses wont interfere with EU supplies doesn't mean there is or isn't one. People even thinking there is one is good for him overall.

Irrelevant anyway. His lot and her lot have reached an amical agreement. We don't know what it is or why.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

i cannot find anywhere that the UK have stated we dont have a clause in the contract,

UK denied its existence. Granted that cannot be believed.

the EU was dissatisfied, and did not believe what they were being told, however they have failed to show any evidence that AZ were lying and shipped supplies elsewhere.
there is no evidence that EU money was spent on the UK plant

Their suspicions were raised by the vague, obtuse and misleading explanations by AZ.
The evidence that EU has partly financed the UK plants has already been provided. Granted, it is only evidence if you accept the report of the BBC Health correspondent, which you might dismiss without any evidence to the contrary, other than your opinion.

AZ have offered 9 million more doses, but have not stated how or where these doses are coming from.

I think we can deduce where they are coming from, especially considering the UK's conciliatory nature since the furore.
I thought I'd better provide the evidence before you dismiss its existence:

A major row has been avoided - and UK ministers are adopting a conciliatory tone.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55873288​

And see your own comment below.

believe that the UK have offered to step in to try and defuse the situation and allowed 9 million doses to ship from the uk plant, in return for the pfizer vaccine not to be held by europe, i reckon this was the conversation between ursala and bojo, but this is my own thoughts and conjecture and should not be treated as fact.

that or whn AZ said we are going to supply eu 50 million less doses than agreed they kept the 9 million in there back pocket...

You mean AZ were playing a game of poker, with such an immensely important product as a Covid vaccine?
OK, It wouldn't surprise me.
That would mean that yet again AZ have been proved to be an irreputable company.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Will the French strummer Soc not let you in?

I suspect they might if I asked them, do you have a link to their site?

 

[durhamplumber]

I suspect they might if I asked them, do you have a link to their site?

You could always try again under a pseudonym

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

You could always try again under a pseudonym

I'd prefer a nom de plume.