"Everthing's Great," says Ford...

I didn't say that you said that, I asked if that is what you are saying..I can only conclude that if you can't give us any figures, then no money is being offered otherwise you would be shouting that figure from the roof tops
 
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Firebrand said:
..I can only conclude that if you can't give us any figures, then no money is being offered otherwise you would be shouting that figure from the roof tops
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Fallacious reasoning. Just because we don't know how much is being offered, doesn't mean no money is being offered.

However, it is unlikely that money is being offered directly, to overcome barriers of being outside the single market, as that would be illegal under EU law. It is more likely that indirect sweeteners are being offered, such as huge amounts of help with training, tax relief etc.

Fact is that the EU is a huge trading bloc, and if we're outside the single market, we stand lose huge amounts of decent jobs. The supply chain of the industry will take years to adjust, but it would be unlikely to be good for the UK overall.

So May is ploughing ahead knowing we will be worse off. More inflation, more job losses, loss to the environment and wildlife..

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ge-and-illegal-wildlife-measure-a7674706.html
 
wobs said:
Fallacious reasoning. Just because we don't know how much is being offered, doesn't mean no money is being offered.

However, it is unlikely that money is being offered directly, to overcome barriers of being outside the single market, as that would be illegal under EU law. It is more likely that indirect sweeteners are being offered, such as huge amounts of help with training, tax relief etc.

Fact is that the EU is a huge trading bloc, and if we're outside the single market, we stand lose huge amounts of decent jobs. The supply chain of the industry will take years to adjust, but it would be unlikely to be good for the UK overall.

So May is ploughing ahead knowing we will be worse off. More inflation, more job losses, loss to the environment and wildlife..

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ge-and-illegal-wildlife-measure-a7674706.html
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Hardly poor reasoning.. If JD had the figures, then he would be waving them from a flagpole... Or a bus. But he is not and as such it would be reasonable to assume that he has made it all up. Either way it doesn't matter as there is nothing you or he can do about it anyway. Just curious, how many of these Nisans actually go to the EU and how many are sold outside of the EU having passed through an EU port?

Despite all of the noise that the Remnants are making and given that a full Brexit is expected, you will find that useful people have become very busy and their labour rates are increasing.. It seems that the majority of protests have been made by the useless members of our society, those who have relied on money from the EU to keep them in their non productive position.
 
Very poor reasoning by FireOscar.

We all know that Nissan made it known that they would run down their UK business if there was no free access to the Single Market, and that they agreed to stay after Theresa made certain commitments to them.

FoxtrotBrand doesn't know what they were promised, but it was enough to cover their losses and keep them profitable.

We don't know what has been, or will be, promised to all the other foreign-owned manufacturers operating in dUK. But we do know they have warned the government that loss of free access to the Single Market will be a crippling blow. We have all known that for a year or more. Of course the Quitters didn't want to admit that they were aiming for a Hard Brexit or No Deal (option 4 on the chart) because that would have meant admitting the unpalatable truth. Some Brexiteers even tried to bluff that the EU would offer no-strings attached free access. This was of course a lie.
 
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JohnD said:
Very poor reasoning by FireOscar.

We all know that Nissan made it known that they would run down their UK business if there was no free access to the Single Market, and that they agreed to stay after Theresa made certain commitments to them.

FoxtrotBrand doesn't know what they were promised, but it was enough to cover their losses and keep them profitable.

We don't know what has been, or will be, promised to all the other foreign-owned manufacturers operating in dUK. But we do know they have warned the government that loss of free access to the Single Market will be a crippling blow. We have all known that for a year or more. Of course the Quitters didn't want to admit that they were aiming for a Hard Brexit or No Deal (option 4 on the chart) because that would have meant admitting the unpalatable truth. Some Brexiteers even tried to bluff that the EU would offer no-strings attached free access. This was of course a lie.
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Nissan may have made a statement but we don't know what their intentions were or are in reality.. No one here knows what if anything has been offered and most here know that we don't know... It is all just guessing
 
Firebrand said:
Hardly poor reasoning.. If JD had the figures, then he would be waving them from a flagpole... Or a bus. But he is not and as such it would be reasonable to assume that he has made it all up. Either way it doesn't matter as there is nothing you or he can do about it anyway
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But that doesn't mean such payments won't be happening. Remember, you said:
I can only conclude that if you can't give us any figures, then no money is being offered otherwise you would be shouting that figure from the roof tops
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The evidence points to Nissan receiving some benefit from the government to continue investing, either in the short term or further (we don't know which). This following after Nissan expressing concern about continued links with the EU after Brexit, and the link below clearly demonstrates this concern. That they would need some kind of sweetener is highly likely, as a hard brexit would almost certainly guarantee they wouldn't be investing in the UK as they have been. It would be more likely that they would start investing on mainland Europe for future developments.
. Just curious, how many of these Nisans actually go to the EU and how many are sold outside of the EU having passed through an EU port?
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UK exports:
"UK car exports to EU countries increased by 7.5% to 758,680 last year"
-From BBC
And elsewhere we find:
"Nissan manufactured over 500,000 cars at its Sunderland plant in 2013. 19% of production was sold domestically in the UK, 71% was exported to the rest of Europe (including Russia) and 10% exported to the rest of the world(1).

https://www.smmt.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/SMMT-KPMG-EU-Report.pdf
Document from 2014.

Also in the above link, we find that the supply chain is interconnected in the EU. And R&D is:

"Ford’s operations in the UK are part of an interconnected and interdependent supply chain network across Europe and the world. "
But what of non-EU countries?
"There are significant trade opportunities with non-EU markets which are best realised by being part of the large EU negotiating bloc "
And later:
"Today, the UK seeks to reduce these trade barriers through the collective bargaining position of the EU.

It really is a good read.

SMMT is the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders
 
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Indeed, I agree.. An entity that has been established to promote the interests of the car industry should promote the easiest solution for their members, that solution is to stay in the EU. We have, however voted to leave so they will have to devise another solution.

It's interesting that you have only provided data about car exports to "Europe" which includes a lot of countries that are not in the EU but the cars will pass through the EU on their way... How do we know that 1 car was sold in the EU and all the rest were sold to Russia?.

I'm sure that you are right, the motor industry will collapse and folk will end up begging for scraps.. Does that make you happy?

In the mean time the rest of us will work to make sure that Brexit is a success.
 
Firebrand said:
In the mean time the rest of us will work to make sure that Brexit is a success.
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What an interesting idea

You mean in the same way that the Europhobes spent the last forty years working hard to make our EU a success.

In today's news, Boris The Buffoon announces that after resigning from the EU, all motorways will be renamed "Queen's Highways," except in Wales where they will be named "Prince's Highways" and Cornwall where they will be renamed "Duke's Highways."

It will be illegal to use metric or decimal measures. Screws will be sold by the dozen or gross.

Litres may no longer be used for petrol sales. Petrol will be sold only in Imperial Quarts (forty fluid ounces) except in cities with Royal Charters predating Queen Victoria, where they must be sold in Queen Anne quarts (thirty-two fluid ounces.)

I look forward to seeing Bernard assure us that the Worshipful Company of Greengrocers has issued a twenty-thousand word document outlawing straight bananas and defining the acceptable radius according to grade. Perhaps he will back up his claim by referring to some newspaper.
 
JohnD said:
Litres may no longer be used for petrol sales. Petrol will be sold only in Imperial Quarts
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Actually it would make sense to sell petrol in gallons, since literally everyone measures their efficiency in miles per gallon. Always bothered me, that one.
 
Firebrand said:
It's interesting that you have only provided data about car exports to "Europe" which includes a lot of countries that are not in the EU but the cars will pass through the EU on their way... How do we know that 1 car was sold in the EU and all the rest were sold to Russia?.
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I'm glad you asked.
According to this link, over 57% of cars exported from the UK, went to the EU, while about 2% (ish) went to Russia.

embed.html

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ake-new-qashqai-and-x-trail-models-in-Britain

Sooooo the EU is kind of important.
 
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