Excessive Gas Consumption - Not sure what to try next!

[mjr_havoc]

Just to give anyone interested an update, since the changes made yesterday, my gas usage has gone down from an average of 225 kWh for 01-20 Jan to just 129 kWh for 21 Jan (yesterday).

This is a substantial decrease and I have made further tweaks which I will be monitoring in today's usage.

I am also looking at the ebusd project on GitHub which someone has put together to use a separate controller (e.g. raspberry pi) to connect to the boiler's ebus and provide digital control. I am not sure how this will work yet or if it will interface with the Tado system but I am still investigating.

 

[Notch7]

Just to give anyone interested an update, since the changes made yesterday, my gas usage has gone down from an average of 225 kWh for 01-20 Jan to just 129 kWh for 21 Jan (yesterday).

This is a substantial decrease and I have made further tweaks which I will be monitoring in today's usage.

I am also looking at the ebusd project on GitHub which someone has put together to use a separate controller (e.g. raspberry pi) to connect to the boiler's ebus and provide digital control. I am not sure how this will work yet or if it will interface with the Tado system but I am still investigating.

Im not sure if this has been covered nor am i sure what your boiler can do nor what system design it has, ie s plan or whatever, however in general:

the UK market has become driven by the idea that TRVs are the way for best efficiency

but its not always true

But that is contrary to the science, the most efficient way to use a boiler is to have the heating flow temperature at the lowest possible necessary to reach the target temperature in relation to the external temperature.

condensing boilers only start condensing at 54 deg or below, and the lower the return temp the more efficient

also the lower the radiator temperature the more efficient the system

So the best systems are designed to have separate hot water flow temps to heating temps.

its best to have the hot water temp at max boiler temp say 80 deg and the heating temp at the lowest possible and set by weather compensation

having TRVs actually strangles the efficiency of the system and the boiler is producing hot water to heat the house but its not being transferred to the house but returning to the boiler.




have a look at heat geeks and or urban plumber on this

According to HeatGeek, it's best to maintain a constant flow of heat at a low temperature to maximize heat pump or boiler efficiency. This can be achieved by using a setback temperature for unused rooms and adjusting the flow temperature of the boiler.

Explanation

• Setback temperature
  Use a slightly lower temperature for unused rooms so that flow continues. This can help prevent the other radiators from having to work harder.
  
  
• Flow temperature
  Lowering the boiler temperature is the best way to reduce heating costs. However, setting the flow temperature too low can make the property too cold.
  
  
• Weather compensation
  Use weather compensation functionality to maintain the temperature in the building. This can help prevent rooms from overheating.
  
  
• Modulating boilers
  Use a modulating boiler with burner-linked pump control to adjust the pump speed based on the heat input. This can help ensure the correct flow rate.
  
  
• Condensing boilers
  Use a condensing boiler to cool the combustion gases to below 57°C. This allows the water vapor to recondense back into liquid water, which releases hea

Why NOT to ZONE Heat Pumps or Boilers! - HeatGeek

www.heatgeek.com

 

[mjr_havoc]

Im not sure if this has been covered nor am i sure what your boiler can do nor what system design it has, ie s plan or whatever, however in general:

the UK market has become driven by the idea that TRVs are the way for best efficiency

but its not always true

But that is contrary to the science, the most efficient way to use a boiler is to have the heating flow temperature at the lowest possible necessary to reach the target temperature in relation to the external temperature.

condensing boilers only start condensing at 54 deg or below, and the lower the return temp the more efficient

also the lower the radiator temperature the more efficient the system

So the best systems are designed to have separate hot water flow temps to heating temps.

its best to have the hot water temp at max boiler temp say 80 deg and the heating temp at the lowest possible and set by weather compensation

having TRVs actually strangles the efficiency of the system and the boiler is producing hot water to heat the house but its not being transferred to the house but returning to the boiler.




have a look at heat geeks and or urban plumber on this

According to HeatGeek, it's best to maintain a constant flow of heat at a low temperature to maximize heat pump or boiler efficiency. This can be achieved by using a setback temperature for unused rooms and adjusting the flow temperature of the boiler.

Explanation

• Setback temperature
  Use a slightly lower temperature for unused rooms so that flow continues. This can help prevent the other radiators from having to work harder.
  
  
• Flow temperature
  Lowering the boiler temperature is the best way to reduce heating costs. However, setting the flow temperature too low can make the property too cold.
  
  
• Weather compensation
  Use weather compensation functionality to maintain the temperature in the building. This can help prevent rooms from overheating.
  
  
• Modulating boilers
  Use a modulating boiler with burner-linked pump control to adjust the pump speed based on the heat input. This can help ensure the correct flow rate.
  
  
• Condensing boilers
  Use a condensing boiler to cool the combustion gases to below 57°C. This allows the water vapor to recondense back into liquid water, which releases hea

Why NOT to ZONE Heat Pumps or Boilers! - HeatGeek

www.heatgeek.com

Hi, thank you for your insight.

I have changed the schedules on all my TRVs such that most radiators are on at the same time and off at the same time. There is not a time when only 1 or 2 radiators are on. This will help reduce cycling and the return temp to the boiler.

I still have a massive list of things I need to do and investigate and will add your suggestions to it!

 

[UpgradeME]

I am also looking at the ebusd project on GitHub which someone has put together to use a separate controller (e.g. raspberry pi) to connect to the boiler's ebus and provide digital control. I am not sure how this will work yet or if it will interface with the Tado system but I am still investigating.

I also have a eBUS adapter attached to my system, which feeds into Home Assistant using ebusd addon (That's where the graph I posted came from). If you are tech savvy**, HA will almost certainly be your friend when it comes to trying to get Tado and eBUS working together. No idea what's possible as I don't use Tado, but disparate integrations is what HA is designed / best for.

** Note: I'm very tech savvy, however getting ebusd working was a VERY steep learning curve, none of my system was supported 'out of the box' so I had to decode ebus messages on the bus and create specific files for my system. The WiFi adapter is cheap enough to have a play with anyway!

 

[mjr_havoc]

I also have a eBUS adapter attached to my system, which feeds into Home Assistant using ebusd addon (That's where the graph I posted came from). If you are tech savvy**, HA will almost certainly be your friend when it comes to trying to get Tado and eBUS working together. No idea what's possible as I don't use Tado, but disparate integrations is what HA is designed / best for.

** Note: I'm very tech savvy, however getting ebusd working was a VERY steep learning curve, none of my system was supported 'out of the box' so I had to decode ebus messages on the bus and create specific files for my system. The WiFi adapter is cheap enough to have a play with anyway!

This is exactly what I needed! Thank you!

I already have a server with HA although I've not had time to tinker and set it up yet. I do a bit of programming on the side too so happy to dig into this. In the next 6m to a year I want to try and get this set up to work as I don't see another way to get everything talking to each other.

 

[MNW67]

I have only started investigating the issues but so far I can say that I have managed to HALF my usage by doing the following things:

That is amazing

 

[UpgradeME]

In the next 6m to a year I want to try and get this set up to work as I don't see another way to get everything talking to each other.

Yes, probably best to play around in the summer, ready for next winter! - This is the HA ebusd addon I use with the WiFi adapter I posted above, which seems to be reliable (I've had it installed 6+ months and only just got around to playing with it in HA)

 

[mjr_havoc]

Yes, probably best to play around in the summer, ready for next winter! - This is the HA ebusd addon I use with the WiFi adapter I posted above, which seems to be reliable (I've had it installed 6+ months and only just got around to playing with it in HA)

Thanks! I have added this to my list of things to do!

 

[Why Not Indeed]

getting ebusd working was a VERY steep learning curve

Mine "just worked" - wired in the adaptor, pointed ebusd at the adaptor IP address, ebusd scanned the bus and detected my Vaillant boiler, very little fiddling around required. But maybe your system is more complicated than mine.
That said, ebusd is just not like other software, it is almost wilfully obtuse. I don't have writing working yet, all I can do is read.
The CSV config files were changed to something else in recent versions so some advice you will find on the internet is obsolete.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Yes, probably best to play around in the summer, ready for next winter! - This is the HA ebusd addon I use with the WiFi adapter I posted above, which seems to be reliable (I've had it installed 6+ months and only just got around to playing with it in HA)

Having a modern Vaillant boiler, I would love to get involved with such projects - problem is, then there would only be me here, able to sort it out if/when it goes wrong.

 

[UpgradeME]

Mine "just worked" - wired in the adaptor, pointed ebusd at the adaptor IP address, ebusd scanned the bus and detected my Vaillant boiler, very little fiddling around required. But maybe your system is more complicated than mine.

Installation of the adapter itself and HA integration was simple, like yours… It was more there were no config files specifically for my boiler and vSmart thermostat. The VR65 also wasn’t detected at first, it needed the adapter PWM tweaking to be seen on the eBUS.

I wish I had the adapter when I was setting up my system years ago, just being able to view flow/return temps in real time on a graph, seeing what the boiler is doing alongside inside and outside temps would have made optimising much easier!

Vaillant were asking silly money (~£900) for their adapter at the time, alternatives can now be purchased for ~£20 which highlights how outrageous their pricing was!

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I wish I had the adapter when I was setting up my system years ago, just being able to view flow/return temps in real time on a graph, seeing what the boiler is doing alongside inside and outside temps would have made optimising much easier!

Vaillant were asking silly money (~£900) for their adapter at the time, alternatives can now be purchased for ~£20 which highlights how outrageous their pricing was!

Being able to monitor, without having the heating fail if the monitoring system died, would be quite handy.

Can you provide more details of where you sourced the ebus adaptor, the monitoring software, and how you set it up please?

 

[UpgradeME]

Can you provide more details of where you sourced the ebus adaptor, the monitoring software, and how you set it up please?

I posted links to everything I am using above!

 

[mjr_havoc]

Being able to monitor, without having the heating fail if the monitoring system died, would be quite handy.

Can you provide more details of where you sourced the ebus adaptor, the monitoring software, and how you set it up please?

The ebusd Github page has links on setup and where to buy the adaptor & wifi module.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

The ebusd Github page has links on setup and where to buy the adaptor & wifi module.

OK, it has taken me no less than two hours of going around in circles, trying to order an EBUS adaptor. Another badly designed website, which allows a potential customer, to get stuck in a hole, they cannot climb out of - it let me sign in with Google, failed to have me set up a password for the site, then wanted the password I had not set up, to log in and pay for the item..

Anyway, adaptor ordered. I then tried to make sense of the software needed, to connect to the adaptor, Windows - and nothing made any sense at all to me. This page - https://www.home-assistant.io/installation/windows

In (very) simple terms, how do I set this up please, on a Win11 laptop?