Expanded ULEZ

[Ivor Windybottom]

Gradually being 'encouraged' out of our vehicles. Regardless of your views (good or bad idea) it's happening and will only increase. I reckon some of the stuff being implemented in cities will eventually find its way to larger and perhaps smaller towns. Oxford setting up separate zones, encouraging people with cars to remain within their own zone where possible.

It's already happening, like it or not...

All the towns and cities in Britain with planned clean driving zones

Under government orders, councils have been told to curb their air pollution levels - and to do so, they should rid roads of the dirtiest cars, meaning clean zones are coming.

www.thisismoney.co.uk

I don't think the majority are yet aware of what's going on.

Currently some do or don't affect private cars, but this may change over time. Some of the daily fees are pretty big, they could soon mount up. Scotland is £60 reduced to £30 for a car, but then doubling each time you re-offend to a maximum of £480.

It's only a matter of time before the non-compliant cars lose lots of value, this doesn't seem to have happened yet from what I've seen so if you have one then now's a good time to make it someone else's problem - flog it and buy a slightly newer one, while it won't currently cost a vast amount to do so. This has probably already happened with vans, it's probably too late to upgrade a van now without paying a vast amount to trade up.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

The correct way to reduce the number of vehicles on the roads is first to stop immigration. Blair's ten million population increase has ruined, among other things, driving on Britain's roads.

Step two is to properly enforce the traffic laws to the extent that all the bad drivers are banned and the dangerous vehicles scrapped.

Your step 2 is approaching the right idea.

Let's forget your step 1, that's just a rant

 

[securespark]

Manchester's CAZ is currently under review after outcries by the motoring public.

 

[securespark]

It was the same with charges to use the M60. They were proposed, prices published, who had to pay and we all said sack that for a game of soldiers.

 

[Mottie]

We had to leave Cambridge earlier than we wanted because there was a protest/rally starting on the green opposite the hotel we were staying in. People were protesting that they were bringing in a £5 charge to drive into Cambridge. Any vehicle, not just the high polluting ones. Of course it’s all dressed up as an environment thing but in reality, it’s just another 'fleece the motorist' tax. If they dont want cars, ban them but that wouldn’t bring in any revenue, would it?

Cambridge: Campaigners rally against congestion charge plans

A consultation on plans to introduce a £5 congestion charge in Cambridge runs until 23 December.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[conny]

We are in the centre of London at the moment, (Holborn area), and there is no shortage of cars of all ages, from the latest electric things, (including taxis), that you can't hear coming/going past, to a few old bangers you can hear a mile off.
45 minutes to get from Holborn to St Thomas's hospital with your heart in your mouth as bikes/scooters and pedestrians seem to come out of nowhere from every direction. Thankfully every taxi driver we have had seems to have this all-round vision and some form of invisible shield around them.
Be glad to get back to Suffolk where every day will seem like a Sunday afternoon toodle.

 

[Ihavenojob]

a few old bangers you can hear a mile off.

Classic cars over 40 years old are exempt.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Classic cars over 40 years old are exempt.

I would expect that loophole to be closed pretty quickly if people start using early 1980s rot-boxes for commuting, as they are now weirdly incentivised to do, as that would make a nonsense of the system.

Many of the restored "classics" from this era are "Trigger's Broom" restorations anyway, they're basically almost all new minus a token few old bits. E.g. many minis have an entirely new bodyshell, i.e. the thing that looks a lot like an entire car when you see one!...

Classic British Mini Bodyshells - British Motor Heritage

British Motor Heritage Mini bodyshells are manufactured by using original factory press tooling and assembly jigs

www.bmh-ltd.com

 

[Bodgedbuild]

Daft thing is, any car fitted with a CAT or DPF is actually extremely clean and the cars that weigh the most, the EV's, especially the powerful ones, are kicking up loads more particulates. This is a tax and money raiser, nothing more, nothing less and it is people on lower incomes, those that can't afford newer cars, that will suffer most....
https://earth.org/tyre-pollution/

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

It doesn't matter, it's definitely happening. Were you under the impression that this country was some kind of democracy and/or that your opinion mattered?

To be fair, the Euro 6 diesels emit much less Nox, due to the AdBlue system converting it all into harmless stuff instead. It's pretty clever stuff. For me, the only issue is the pace - the time between these systems becoming mandatory on new cars and banning the old ones hasn't been long enough, with the result that only wealthier people can drive a diesel into these cities now.

The situation with petrol cars is fair enough, but the old banger exemption makes a mockery of it all anyway.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

The situation with petrol cars is fair enough, but the old banger exemption makes a mockery of it all anyway.

The majority of classic cars are well maintained, usually better maintained than many newer cars. If they're not maintained they don't live long enough to reach classic status. These cars are rarely used for high mileages, and due to their rarity their effect on the environment is negligible.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

The majority of classic cars are well maintained, usually better maintained than many newer cars. If they're not maintained they don't live long enough to reach classic status. These cars are rarely used for high mileages, and due to their rarity their effect on the environment is negligible.

...which is fine just as long as they remain collectables that are used occasionally, hence the long standing exclusion from VED.

But it's possible that this new exclusion for ULEZs gives a perverse incentive for some people to use them as daily transport, in the most densely populated areas of the country.

Maintained or not, a 40-year old car emits vastly higher levels of probably every toxin than any newer car. No catalytic converter for starters.

 

[plugwash]

The cutoff for classic cars used to be 25 years, then the cutoff date was frozen, presumablly because as cars got more reliable more cars were making it to 25 years as "daily drivers". It was unfrozen again at 40 years after campaigning from classic car groups.

 

[Mottie]

The cutoff for classic cars used to be 25 years, then the cutoff date was frozen, presumablly because as cars got more reliable more cars were making it to 25 years as "daily drivers". It was unfrozen again at 40 years after campaigning from classic car groups.

But it’s a rolling 40 years so only another 35 years to go before our current reliable car becomes eligible.

 

[plugwash]

But it’s a rolling 40 years so only another 35 years to go before our current reliable car becomes eligible.

Assuming current policy stays in place, yes, but the cutoff date was frozen before and it could be frozen again.

Alternatively the government could simply stop exempting historic vehicles from ULEZ fees. It seems to me that the case for exempting classics from ULEZ fees is much weaker than the case for exempting them from road tax.