Flight AF447

[Mickymoody]

I'm sure that planes do use GPS, as a backup system, but that would not be a realistic representation of air speed, as GPS doesn't know the wind speed, hence the need for 3 wind speed sensors that failed due to supercooled water.

The planes radar bounces off the storm immediately ahead of it, it's virtually impossible to 'see' through this, and see the secondary storm beyond, although it was mentioned in the programme that a previous flight adjusted the sensitivity of the radar, and saw it.

No mention was made of weather reports being transmitted to the pilots, which is an odd and critical omission.

 

[ColJack]

but surely if the windspeed pipes were blocked then it says that the plane isn't moving at all, no flow - no air movement.. ( lets overlook the remote possibility of the wind blowing the same direction and speed as the plane.. it would fall out of the sky then anyway surely? ).

a big flashing light on the dash or a simple glimpse at the air speed indicator should show " oh look, no air speed.."

as for the weather reports, they lost verbal comunications about 20-30 mins before they crashed, the plane kept sending periodic positioning data though..

 

[empip]

Of course, this was Airbus... But at Oct' 1999 Boeing stated...

...Erroneous flight information such as the many and varied symptoms of pitot-static anomalies can confuse an unprepared flight crew. Because of the confusion caused by multiple and sometimes conflicting alerts and warnings, the flight crew may not recognize an air data error and may fail to respond appropriately. The following accidents and incidents show what can happen when a crew is confronted with unreliable or erroneous flight information...

See 'ACCIDENT AND INCIDENT CASE STUDIES' 'boxed item' near end of page From Boeing

 

[Bahco]

Aircraft Investigation is on every day at 4 pm on National Geographic channel and it shows how meticulous the investigators are.

They leave no stone unturned and will still investigate yrs after the event in order to get to the bottom of it.

It does state that the majority of accidents are caused by human error with the crash being down to either human error by pilots or maintenance staff.

I would not like to be an air traffic controller. Can you imagine the responsibility of such a job?

 

[snico]

I would not like to be an air traffic controller. Can you imagine the responsibility of such a job?

Thats why they say its the most stressful job in the world. I dont think will all the training I could do that job and feel too confident. Takes a special breed to do that job!

 

[joinerjohn]

Aircraft Investigation is on every day at 4 pm on National Geographic channel and it shows how meticulous the investigators are.

They leave no stone unturned and will still investigate yrs after the event in order to get to the bottom of it.

It does state that the majority of accidents are caused by human error with the crash being down to either human error by pilots or maintenance staff.

I would not like to be an air traffic controller. Can you imagine the responsibility of such a job?

Usually in a case where the pilot has been killed, they seem to put it down to pilot error. He's not there to defend himself against any criticism.

Far too easy to blame pilots or maintenance personnel. Far less easy for aircraft manufacturers to admit something may have been wrong with the design/ build of the aircraft though.

 

[sooey]

There was an air traffic controller who got murdered by the father of one of the victims of a head on crash.

 

[Bahco]

I seen that one.

I think it was a Russian man who was overcome with grief that he had to take his revenge.
Very sad.

 

[big-all]

any one interested its on again at 20 past midnight on bbc2 tonight tuesday[wednesday 00.20 ]

 

[Mickymoody]

but surely if the windspeed pipes were blocked then it says that the plane isn't moving at all, no flow - no air movement.. ( lets overlook the remote possibility of the wind blowing the same direction and speed as the plane.. it would fall out of the sky then anyway surely? ).

a big flashing light on the dash or a simple glimpse at the air speed indicator should show " oh look, no air speed.."

as for the weather reports, they lost verbal comunications about 20-30 mins before they crashed, the plane kept sending periodic positioning data though..

As I understand it, the whole concept of the computer running the aircraft is based on those sensors working. The pilot then has to take control of the thrusters, and adjust trim by 5% to maintain level. It is suggested by the programme that the pilot didn't do either.

I think, after watching the programme, and seeing the comments here, that the plane was hit by a lightening strike, that killed the computer, and possibly all on board, by blowing a window out, due to the fact that the plane flew on, but no voice communication was made..

Hope they find the black boxes in good condition, and thus prevent this happening again.

 

[joinerjohn]

Can't see any manufacturer making aircraft , lightning proof though. But never mind,, In 30 -40 yrs the oil will start running out and we'll be back to paddle canoes to cross the channel. Holidays will then be extended to 18 weeks to allow us enough time to reach our Mediterranean destination, have a few days in the sun, then journey home.

 

[sooey]

I didn't watch the programme but I haven't heard anything discussed that wasn't being talked about within days of the plane going missing. Did they actually come up with anything new?

 

[Mickymoody]

I didn't watch the programme but I haven't heard anything discussed that wasn't being talked about within days of the plane going missing. Did they actually come up with anything new?

They didn't know if the explosion was mid-air, they said in the programme it belly-flopped into the sea.

So theoretically, everyone onboard was alive at that time, but there were no human radio communication for 30 mins before the collision.

The suspected faulty sensors due to supercooled water had been an issue, and was being rectified at the time, but this aircraft hadn't been fitted with the new sensors (a heater that is common in diesel cars for pre warming the ignitors, you see the light turn on, when you turn on the ignition, also fitted to catalytic convertors in exhausts, imported cars also have an overheat sensor for them).

Something must be an issue that the pilots didn't receive weather reports, and didn't communicate that they were in trouble. Not hard to shout "Pan Pan" for over 30 minutes. They must have been dead long before the crash.

 

[sooey]

Everything you've mentioned there was being discussed at the time.
As for the pilots not communicating they were in trouble, they were probably too busy trying to get control of the plane, By all accounts once the tubes have blocked up everything goes a bit crazy pretty quick.

 

[Mickymoody]

The pilots have headsets on, it's easy to send a message. When I've flown a flight sim, whatever is wrong, and it's going down, there is plenty of time to send a Pan Pan message. These pilots didn't for 30 minutes.

Something killed them, ie a blown window, as well as faulty airspeed sensors, or they would have sent a mayday.

Possible freezing of the airflow sensors, lightening strike, knocks out their radio, and computer, totally disabled? If so, how does the aircraft continue to transmit error data? Would it be able to still transmit after the crash?