Foreign workers

[joe-90]

But the thing is, Pickles (good post btw), that immigrant workers can survive on far lessthan the average UK citizen with kids and a mortgage. They will all share a squat and live on the minimum wage which is still double what they would earn at home. They will drive down wages until the white guy is unemployed (like Splinter). As far as the immigration of the 60s is concerned, in my opinion it has proved to be a complete social disaster. It's all very well for the 'professions' such as doctors, surveyors, lawyers etc, their careers are protected by belonging to cartels such as the BMA and RICS, but the average working guy is already being pressured and it's only 2 years down the line. One in fifty of our population is now an illegal immigrant working the black economy taking jobs from UK residents.


joe

 

[ban-all-sheds]

With modern open borders economic migrants will just do the logical thing which is pack up and go where the work is

Now - let's see if I can remember - somebody please remind me what sort of politician it was, with what sort of views, and from what sort of party, who was famous for telling people to get on their bikes and go where there was work?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

But the thing is, Pickles (good post btw), that immigrant workers can survive on far lessthan the average UK citizen with kids and a mortgage. They will all share a squat and live on the minimum wage which is still double what they would earn at home. They will drive down wages until the white guy is unemployed (like Splinter).

I think you'll find that Poles are white.

As far as the immigration of the 60s is concerned, in my opinion it has proved to be a complete social disaster.

Of course it has, from your POV, because any immigration is to you, a disaster.

One in fifty of our population is now an illegal immigrant working the black economy taking jobs from UK residents.

Then let's regularise them, boost the economy, and make it impossible for employers to exploit them and pay them illegally low wages. Then they wouldn't be so cheap to employ.

 

[Brightness]

PS i hope your not offended by my post,

Nah don't be daft. I'm used to people asking what's wrong with me anyway!

Get real
why do you think my partner is woking for £112.00p per week
allwe want to do is pay our way and some smart ass pratt says we need foreign workers in this country to take the job vacanties

Was there any need of that? I do live in the real world and believe it or not but until my accident (which wasn't my fault) I worked full time and so has my hubby always worked full time. Your partner must be at least earning the minimum wage otherwise more fool her. Most of us want to pay our way - no need to take it out on me mate. I am correct about the pharmacists too - check it out if you don't believe me, smart @rse

You sued her I hope

For what it was worth! Seven years ago I was earning £12K a year I'd also had to pay out loads on private appointments that her insurance company insisted that I had and we've also had to modify our houses we've lived in so that I can manage independently which all costs money. If i told you what I ended up with and this was also to cover future loss of earnings, you'd laugh!

I've got nothing against them, but they are taking work away from our own people. They and their family have contibuted nothing to this country over the centuries yet thay can wander in at will and stake their claim. After a year in work they can claim dole money, free health, free teeth, council house etc - yet they have contributed zero to the pot.
If we really need them we should give them temporary work permits. If they contribute for ten years - then fine - they have paid their dues.

Couldn't agree more with this - I've always said that we should be more like Australia and Canada with their policies that you have to be able to support yourself for ten years before they let you in! Well done Joe, something else we agree on


Phewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww now after all that I am tired!

 

[pickles]

Yes Joe but the point I am making is that, for the most part, they are not taking jobs from uk residents. They are doing the jobs uk residents don't want, ie all the dirty low paid ones

I am not trying to justify illegal immigration because you can't and I don't like it any more than anyone else, but unfortunately if there is a demand for cheap labour, which there is in this country traditional workers will loose out. Business is about making a profit and the logic of that is to buy in labour costs for as little as possible.

Cheap foreign labour has already destroyed our traditional industries' the only difference was that the work went to them rather than them coming here. That's why we don't build ships, mine coal or roll steel anymore. All that is happening is that we are now creating a demand and they are filling it. The sad fact is that if splinter and a pole quote for work and the pole does it for half price splinter looses out, he's just a modern victim of the logic of a capitalist economy

You can't end our dependence on cheap foreign labour, firstly because the enormous increase in prices it would cause would start an inflationary spiral that would damage the economy and secondly because with many of the jobs they do there isn't actually anyone to do the work without them . Have you ever heard anyone say they can't get a job like shelling peas or gutting chickens because of foreign workers

 

[markie]

BAS

Where in joe's post which you have highlighted, did joe say they were black,green,yellow, etc.. he never said that poles are not white, so why bring colour into it.

 

[pickles]

With modern open borders economic migrants will just do the logical thing which is pack up and go where the work is

Now - let's see if I can remember - somebody please remind me what sort of politician it was, with what sort of views, and from what sort of party, who was famous for telling people to get on their bikes and go where there was work?

Norman Tebitt, whose glorious leader was the person who told us there was no such thing as a community an outlook for which we are now paying dear

 

[ban-all-sheds]

BAS

Where in joe's post which you have highlighted, did joe say they were black,green,yellow, etc.. he never said that poles are not white, so why bring colour into it.

immigrant workers can survive on far lessthan the average UK citizen with kids and a mortgage. They will all share a squat and live on the minimum wage which is still double what they would earn at home. They will drive down wages until the white guy is unemployed

 

[markie]

BAS

Where in joe's post which you have highlighted, did joe say they were black,green,yellow, etc.. he never said that poles are not white, so why bring colour into it.

immigrant workers can survive on far lessthan the average UK citizen with kids and a mortgage. They will all share a squat and live on the minimum wage which is still double what they would earn at home. They will drive down wages until the white guy is unemployed

Did he say poles are none-white yes or no, ?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You've misunderstood.

First of all, he banged on about Poles:

Go to any B&Q and English is the second language amonst workers in overalls and the lead language seems to be Polish.

Brits are being displaced by Europeans.

Mr Polski thinks the minimum wage is a fortune

The people in B&Q (Poles in overalls) are working the black economy.

I've nothing against the Poles - just the system that allows all and sundry in to benefit from what our forefathers left us.

And then he wrote

immigrant workers can survive on far less than the average UK citizen with kids and a mortgage...they will drive down wages until the white guy is unemployed

I was pointing out that the Poles he'd been so agitated about were white.

 

[markie]

You've misunderstood.

First of all, he banged on about Poles:

Go to any B&Q and English is the second language amonst workers in overalls and the lead language seems to be Polish.

Brits are being displaced by Europeans.

Mr Polski thinks the minimum wage is a fortune

The people in B&Q (Poles in overalls) are working the black economy.

I've nothing against the Poles - just the system that allows all and sundry in to benefit from what our forefathers left us.

And then he wrote

immigrant workers can survive on far less than the average UK citizen with kids and a mortgage...they will drive down wages until the white guy is unemployed

I was pointing out that the Poles he'd been so agitated about were white.

So what your saying is, he never said that poles were not white in the HIGHLIGHTED post you typed, under his quote. It's OK even the wise one gets it wrong sometimes,


PS Even thou you don't respect me, i respect you, you add a lot to this forum than most of us.

Moderator Note.

All note, please try to keep this debate on the subject. If it descends into the usual rantings and personal arguments it will be edited/locked/deleted. Please play nicely and keep to the rules.

 

[joe-90]

Yes Joe but the point I am making is that, for the most part, they are not taking jobs from uk residents. They are doing the jobs uk residents don't want, ie all the dirty low paid ones

I am not trying to justify illegal immigration because you can't and I don't like it any more than anyone else, but unfortunately if there is a demand for cheap labour, which there is in this country traditional workers will loose out. Business is about making a profit and the logic of that is to buy in labour costs for as little as possible.

Cheap foreign labour has already destroyed our traditional industries' the only difference was that the work went to them rather than them coming here. That's why we don't build ships, mine coal or roll steel anymore. All that is happening is that we are now creating a demand and they are filling it. The sad fact is that if splinter and a pole quote for work and the pole does it for half price splinter looses out, he's just a modern victim of the logic of a capitalist economy

You can't end our dependence on cheap foreign labour, firstly because the enormous increase in prices it would cause would start an inflationary spiral that would damage the economy and secondly because with many of the jobs they do there isn't actually anyone to do the work without them . Have you ever heard anyone say they can't get a job like shelling peas or gutting chickens because of foreign workers

They are in the construction industry. Besides, what kind of stupid society is it that pays our own not to work (dole) and then pays again to import foreign workers? Why not just pay our own a decent wage for doing the 'dirty work' and cut off all dole money to the malingerers? After all, we can pay GPs five hundred pounds a day so we can't be that short can we?

A few months ago James Dyson gave a televised lecture. What he said was this:
Years ago we designed, manufactured and sold to the world.

Today we design, have the designs made up abroad utilising cheap labour, badge the product in the UK and sell to the world.

However, he said that what is soon to happen in that the product will be designed abroad, manufactured abroad and then sold to the world cutting out the UK altogether.

When this happens we will have no exports and the economy will collapse.

It's just a matter of time.

In 2001 oil prices were $15 per barrel. Today the price is $74 per barrel - and still rising. It really matters not which way you look at things - the West is pretty much finished.

China and India will soon rule the world.

What we should be doing is tightening our belts and employing and retraining our current workforce to face the problems of the future.


joe

 

[joe-90]

One in fifty of our population is now an illegal immigrant working the black economy taking jobs from UK residents.

Then let's regularise them, boost the economy, and make it impossible for employers to exploit them and pay them illegally low wages. Then they wouldn't be so cheap to employ.

That would be economic suicide. The call would go out to the millions that would gladly live in the UK if they could that all they had to do was get here and wait until there was yet another armistice (that's the wrong word but i can't think of the right one). You don't seem to realise that the UK is already overflowing.
I ask you the usual question BAS - "At what point do YOU think the UK is full up"?



joe

 

[Thermo]

Actually they were hovering in the mid 20s a barrel in 01. They were in the late 60s a barrel in the early 80s due to the iran and iraq war. West didnt fall apart then!

 

[joe-90]

Actually they were hovering in the mid 20s a barrel in 01. They were in the late 60s a barrel in the early 80s due to the iran and iraq war. West didnt fall apart then!

The difference is that in that time the outlook was that it was a temporary situation, and that prices would stabilise. At the moment they are going up and up and up and it doesn't look like they will ever tumble again. The day of free energy is over, from this point on it's going to be all downhill.



joe