Glow worm boiler with smart centre - complex problems.

[D_Hailsham]

What this posting does demonstrate is that the instructions for controllers leave a lot of questions unanswered if D Hailsham cannot find the answer!

Is that a challenge?

1. If there was no link between L and R on the boiler, it would not run at all.

2. If there was no link between 0 and 24V on the boiler, I suspect that the receiver would not work.

3. The Climapro must be set to Mode 0 if the HW is indirect (via a cylinder)

4. No-one has considered the possibility that the Climapro controller or the Smart wiring centre may be faulty.

 

[harold5]

have you got boiler/wiring centre fed from the same spur. if they are not powered up at the same time it can corrupt the software. when powered up leave it for 5 mins before touching anything. if you have the basics right, ie link in l + r, ebus wiring then the first thing i would try is disconnect cyl stat from centre to eliminate faulty stat/wiring.this could stop heating coming on if its in hw priority.
make sure your heating parameters are switched on in the climapro 2, max temp is high. also turn the modulating control off . this could be holding it in hw priority.

 

[picasso]

4. No-one has considered the possibility that the Climapro controller or the Smart wiring centre may be faulty.

the op wrote;

Next Glow worm replaced all electronics - new smart wiring centre, new antenna and new climapro RF 2 thermostat/controller with very latest firmware installed. They also replaced all the electronics in the boiler itself. The problem remained. Confirmed that the cylinder stat works and the motorised valve is able to move to all positions.

 

[Bakerbloke]

CH on does have 240v if the boiler is set to setting 2 test mode. It just doesn't respond to any heating demand - just hot water.

Regarding the link - haven't checked yet I'm not electrically qualified but know a little about computer electronics - I don't mind opening up the smart centre, valve, stat or even the boiler front but the link wire us in a black sealed cartridge type thing and I can't understand how to access it just to have a look so I can communicate the info to you guys. I've completely removed the mains wire so there is no power going to any of the heating system - if I knew how to see onto the black cartridge thing I could take a photo and put it on this forum.

 

[dumbrill]

I don't mind opening up the smart centre, valve, stat or even the boiler front but the link wire us in a black sealed cartridge type thing and I can't understand how to access it

It says how on page 6 of this manual

http://glowworm.technicks.net/products/pdf/accessories/Smart_wiring_kit0020059272.pdf

but I doubt that this is the answer.

 

[picasso]

press the menu button for 7 seconds

enter the code 96

your in the installer menu

are the heating parameters on ?

 

[Bakerbloke]

press the menu button for 7 seconds

enter the code 96

your in the installer menu

are the heating parameters on ?

The menu prompts for a diagnostic code - D8 heating demand is always 0 (=no heat request).

 

[picasso]

sorry should have been more specific , do the above on the climapro handset

 

[UpgradeME]

CH on does have 240v if the boiler is set to setting 2 test mode. It just doesn't respond to any heating demand - just hot water.

What is d.70 currently set to?

Regarding the link - haven't checked yet I'm not electrically qualified but know a little about computer electronics - I don't mind opening up the smart centre, valve, stat or even the boiler front but the link wire us in a black sealed cartridge type thing and I can't understand how to access it just to have a look so I can communicate the info to you guys.

Looking at the manual here on page 23, diagram 10.1 shows if you just remove the one retaining screw, the top of the cartridge will lift up revealing the wiring.

2. If there was no link between 0 and 24V on the boiler, I suspect that the receiver would not work.

Not sure exactly what you are referring to, however it's possibly just the eBUS connection which is often marked 24v/0v (parity not important on eBUS)

1. If there was no link between L and R on the boiler, it would not run at all.

Not even in test mode? - It looks like the OP has been running boiler test modes which may over-ride some 'normal' functionality!? I'm guessing that the zone value 'default position' will be for HW (not checked) and if running a boiler test program, the boiler will/may fire anyway, thus heating the DHW.

I still think it could be a missing link cable as from the instructions, it could easily be overlooked! - The Vaillant instructions for the VR65/ecoTECH make it much clearer that this cable needs to be present when using eBUS. As Agile mentioned, it's fitted by default on Vaillant but would have to be removed if fitting 'normal' (non-eBUS) controls. On the Glowworm the cable looks to be part of the "Smart Wiring Centre" kit with little documentation to support it.

 

[D_Hailsham]

2. If there was no link between 0 and 24V on the boiler, I suspect that the receiver would not work.

Not sure exactly what you are referring to, however it's possibly just the eBUS connection which is often marked 24v/0v (parity not important on eBUS)

That's what it says in the Climapro Installation Manual,which shows three terminals on the Ebus block! However, the Flexicom HX boilers have two terminals. Further investigation showed that only the CX (combi boilers) have three terminals.

Compare CX Instructions Diagram 11.2 with HX Instructions Diagram11.2.

Whoever wrote the Climapro manual didn't check their facts.

1. If there was no link between L and R on the boiler, it would not run at all.

Not even in test mode?

Agree, that is a possibility, though the MI's do say: "This appliance will not operate without a link or system controls fitted."

I'm guessing that the zone value 'default position' will be for HW (not checked) and if running a boiler test program, the boiler will/may fire anyway, thus heating the DHW

The OP's system does not have a zone valve but a mid-position valve, which has the "HW open" position as the default.

 

[D_Hailsham]

Reading through the topic again the problem boils down to the motorized valve not opening to heating. HW is OK as that is the default valve position.

You need 240V on the white wire to move the valve to mid-position (heating and hot water) and on white and grey wires for heating only.

If you have a multimeter you can check the voltages at the Smart box. Measure between the appropriate terminal and the N terminal.

1. Turn both HW and CH on so both should be calling for heat (stats up).

2.Measure voltage between white and N at the Smart box.

3. If it measures 240V, then both CH and HW should be working. Go to 6.

4. If it does not measure 240V, temporarily remove the white wire from the Smart box and measure again at the white wire terminal.

5. If you now get 240V at the white terminal, the problem lies with the valve.

6. If you are getting 240V at the white wire, turn the HW thermostat down to min.

7. Measure voltage between grey and N at Smart box. Should be 240V.

8. If 240V on grey, CH only should be on.

9. If not 240V on grey, temporarily remove grey wire from Smart box and measure again at the grey wire terminal.

5. If you now get 240V at the grey terminal, the problem lies with the valve.

To summarize:

You need 240V on white for HW and CH
You need 240V on white and grey for CH only

 

[Bakerbloke]

Some good ideas coming through - much appreciated - haven't been able to check if the link wire is in. From an earlier post - the heating parameters on the climapro are on.

About to send the link to these suggestions to Glow worm.

 

[harold5]

did you turn modulation off?

 

[UpgradeME]

Whoever wrote the Climapro manual didn't check their facts.

Agreed. I assume Glow-Worm is a 'low cost' brand for Vaillant Group as it seems the technology side is a cut-down Vaillant ecoTEC and the manuals are very basic / missing information.

Agree, that is a possibility, though the MI's do say: "This appliance will not operate without a link or system controls fitted."

Which MI manual is that quote from? (I couldn't find it...)

The OP's system does not have a zone valve but a mid-position valve, which has the "HW open" position as the default.

Okay, my terminology was incorrect but I had the right idea!? - Even though the OP has stated that there is no power to the White cable and the zone valve operates when 230v is applied, your troubleshooting suggestions above sound sensible!

I still think it's the link cable! - OP, do please tell us if/when that is checked!!

 

[dumbrill]

Which MI manual is that quote from? (I couldn't find it...)

If you look at the picture I cut from the Flexicom manual in my post this morning at 8am there is a statement saying that the boiler won't work without a link or timer, etc.

I think the OP is now stuck between rolling up his sleeves and following up all these suggestions versus making Glowworm sort it out. If it were me I would sort it out, but then if you'd paid out for an installation you want it to work.