Good by quartz halogen bulbs, are we ready?

Joined
27 Jan 2008
Messages
24,903
Reaction score
2,877
Location
Llanfair Caereinion, Nr Welshpool
Country
United Kingdom
BBC report says September but are we ready? I have problems with daughter who gets a headache if my main LED lights are used.

Having opened LED bulbs it seems some have a smoothing capacitor so no strobe effect, but not all, and no marking on the packaging to say which are which.

As to low voltage lamps and electronic transformers can see some real problems.

Best of it all there is nothing really to show tungsten bulbs waste that much energy, yes in summer, but reduces losses with air changes in winter by using the radiant heat from the bulb.

The gas cooker and non induction electric cooker waste far more energy in the home than the bulbs ever will.
 
Sponsored Links
Halogen lamps to be banned from sale. LED to replace them

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57407233

Has anyone any knowledge of the effect of this carbon reduction policy on people's well being,

The light from a candle flames is soothing. Not because of any organic oils in the wax but because the light is rich in near infra red energy which affects the human body.

The light from an LED has little if any near infra red and may contain some ultra violet light, ( almost all LEDs have an ultra violet source that excites a light emitting phosphor ).

A police friend recalled that interviews in the old original interview room were generally more productive than interviews in the newly re-furbished room. Quality of the lighting could have been involved as the rooms were otherwise almost identical.

Could ( some of ) the increase in problematic childhood behaviour be attributed to a different type of lighting as the child's personality is being formed.

Bernard

~~~~~~
 
Why do the emergency services use blue lights, because blue light was known to make people more alert and so they were more reactive to blue light. This was known way back in the 1960's but at the time the reason why blue light had this effect was not known.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29251065/ contains this

Objectives: Two recent scientific breakthroughs may alter the treatment of mental illness, as discussed in this narrative review. The first was the invention of white light-emitting diodes (LEDs), which enabled an ongoing, rapid transition to energy-efficient LEDs for lighting, and the use of LEDs to backlight digital devices. The second was the discovery of melanopsin-expressing photosensitive retinal ganglion cells, which detect environmental irradiance and mediate non-image forming (NIF) functions including circadian entrainment, melatonin secretion, alertness, sleep regulation and the pupillary light reflex. These two breakthroughs are interrelated because unlike conventional lighting, white LEDs have a dominant spectral wavelength in the blue light range, near the peak sensitivity for the melanopsin system.

Methods: Pertinent articles were identified.

Results: Blue light exposure may suppress melatonin, increase alertness, and interfere with sleep in young, healthy volunteers and in animals. Areas of concern in mental illness include the influence of blue light on sleep, other circadian-mediated symptoms, prescribed treatments that target the circadian system, measurement using digital apps and devices, and adolescent sensitivity to blue light.


Which when decoded suggests that LED lighting that creates ultra-violet radiation to excite phosphors may also be exciting the human brain when it is trying to relax.
 
Sponsored Links
Page 41 - The Ecodesign for Energy-Related Products and Energy Information (Lighting Products) Regulations 2012 said:
Flicker metric(PstLM) Stroboscopic effect metric(SVM)
Can some one explain, does this mean I can select lamps which don't flicker?
 
The light from an LED has little if any near infra red and may contain some ultra violet light, ( almost all LEDs have an ultra violet source that excites a light emitting phosphor ).
What has changed, and why?

Way back, for at least the first few years of my being aware of, and using, LEDs, they were invariably red. I therefore imagine that they would probably have radiated an appreciable amount of IR and little, if any light at the other end of the visible spectrum, let alone UV.

One can, of course, now get IR LEDs.

Kind Regards, John
 
What has changed, and why?

Way back, for at least the first few years of my being aware of, and using, LEDs, they were invariably red. I therefore imagine that they would probably have radiated an appreciable amount of IR and little, if any light at the other end of the visible spectrum, let alone UV.
Plain LEDs are narrowband devices, not quite as narrow as lasers but much narrower than a black-body and too narrow to use on their own for general illumination. Early LEDs were as you say almost invariblly red (or IR for communications applications that didn't need to be human visible). It took a long time to work out practical semiconductor formulations for high-efficiency short-wavelength LEDs.

You can convert shorter wavelength light to longer wavelength light with a phosphor coating, but I don't think you can do the reverse. AIUI the cheapest, most efficient way to make white LEDs is to use a blue LED element in combination with a yellow phosphor that mix to produce a passable white light, but with a strongly bimodal spectrum. A better CRI can be achived by using a UV LED and then using phosphors similar to those used on flourescent lights, but it comes at a price in efficiency.
 
The big problem with LED light is like fluorescent it can produces a 100 Hz pulsed light which can affect some people and also cause a strobe effect, this can be prevented by using a capacitor after the rectifier so some lamps do not have the problem, I had problems with G9 lamps, the local electrical supplier provided these G9-small.jpg lamps, which had a flicker problem and also flashed when switched off, a load capacitor stopped the flashing, but only way to stop flicker using local suppliers was to use on quartz lamp.

My wife found on the internet these G9-big.jpg lamps, which stopped the flicker, one went faulty so I took it apart to find what was inside it, the current was limited by a capacitor, and fed into a full wave rectifier and a large electrolytic capacitor which which stopped any flicker, the electrolytic capacitor was nearly as big as the previous bulb, and the covers could not be fitted. And the bulb was strictly speaking not allowed for sale in the UK as no wattage or lumen markings, but it worked, I also found a dry joint so repaired the bulb.

However there is no way to read adverts and select bulbs which have no flicker.

The most well-known issue with flicker and strobe lights is the triggering of photosensitive epilepsy.

Children and young-adults up to age 20 are most likely to be diagnosed with epilepsy.

However only 3% of the epileptic population is found to also be triggered by photosensitivity. So although this will be a small segment of the population, these sensitive individuals will need to take extra precautions to avoid flicker which we will outline our suggestions for mitigating flicker in the next section.
Read more here due to lack of packing information the only way at the moment to be sure the bulb will not trigger epileptic problems is to use tungsten bulbs. Yes I am sure one can point a optical device at the bulb to find out if the bulb is smoothed or not, but one is hardly going to get the supermarket to test the bulb before you buy, and once bought it is a bit late, I have a collection of G9 bulbs bought before I found some with no flicker.

I also found when I changed from tungsten to CFL this had a marked effect on the room heating, I found 18°C felt cold in the winter evenings, and found needed to set thermostat to 20°C, I would assume due to the radiant heat from the bulbs when using tungsten it gave a 2°C boost when turning on the lights, so with a lower air temperature air changes would loose less heat, and all rooms could be controlled at a lower air temperature. During the day 18°C was ample when moving around, the cure was a programmable thermostat, but this also resulted in the rooms being warmer when we retired for the night. Where with the tungsten bulb there is an immediate reduction in perceived temperature.

Clearly this will change from home to home, and gas and oil is cheaper than electric so unless all electric heating although the tungsten bulb may save energy in winter, it does not in the main save money.

The other problem is the extra low voltage lamp and the electronic transformer, the electronic transformer will often fit through the hole where the down light fits, where the toroidal transformer is just a little too big, and where a central transformer has been used the extra low voltage supply is often twin flex, i.e. not earth, and the electronic transformer even if it can go from zero and not start at 20 watt is often in the kHz range so can become a transmitter.

In order to save the planet and reduce electronic waste we have a government directive which says produces must be supported for at least 5 years, so can't comply with this unless quartz lamps are sold at least 5 years after the last electronic transformer with a minimum output of more than 5 watt.

So to stop the sale of quartz 12 volt bulbs would be against the governments own directive. As to dimming switches which need a minimum power or other electronic switches this may mean even 230 volt bulbs would be required in tungsten versions.

I have in the main converted, one or two rarely used lights still tungsten, but I can afford the change, think it wrong to force people to change.
 
Plain LEDs are narrowband devices, not quite as narrow as lasers but much narrower than a black-body and too narrow to use on their own for general illumination. Early LEDs were as you say almost invariblly red (or IR for communications applications that didn't need to be human visible). It took a long time to work out practical semiconductor formulations for high-efficiency short-wavelength LEDs.
All agreed.
AIUI the cheapest, most efficient way to make white LEDs is to use a blue LED element in combination with a yellow phosphor that mix to produce a passable white light, but with a strongly bimodal spectrum. A better CRI can be achived by using a UV LED and then using phosphors similar to those used on flourescent lights, but it comes at a price in efficiency.
Yes, I understand all that, and that such is 'how it is usually done' - but I hadn't, until now, thought very much about the "Why?". In particular, until you mentioned it I had not really given much/any thought to ...
You can convert shorter wavelength light to longer wavelength light with a phosphor coating, but I don't think you can do the reverse.
... although I haven't yet thought too deeply, at first sight what you suggest makes total sense, on the basis that the longer wavelength radiation will have less energy than the shorter wavelength.

Kind Regards, John
 
I changed the 8 spotlights in our kitchen for LED's. Mrs Mottie hates them and calls them 'kebab shop' lights. (n)
 
My son swapped the 64 watt fluorescent fitting with a 24 watt LED tube for an array of 16 spot lights, 3 watt each, so back to 48 watt, and OK looks good, but I still call it the planetarium, he could have arranged them in the shape of the great bear while he was doing it.
 
Switch Mode Power Supply modules ( known as "electronic transformers" or "LED Drivers" ) switch at a frequency somewhere between10kHz and 50kHz ( other frequencies have been found ).

Some of these modules produce sound at that frequency ( un--intentional but it happens due to poor design and cheap manufacturing ).

Animals and young children can hear this sound but most adults cannot hear it. It's frequency is above the limit of frequencies that adults can hear. ( like a silent dog whistle ).

This sound can cause significant distress to an animal while adults who cannot hear it wonder why their normally placid dog is being so aggressive,
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top