Goodbye MG Rover

[AdamW]

I am 24 so don't really remember the "bad old days" of BL. In fact, my first memories of BL cars are my Mum's Austin Princess c1984 and my Grandad's Austin Ambassador c1986.

I considered an MG ZR105 when I bought my car, I would have got one if I hadn't had to do long trips in the car, and if it had come with leccy windows and aircon as standard. I think they sold a lot of ZRs in the way that Renault sold a lot of Clios: free insurance included. That is an immensely attractive proposition for those with no NCB and in the under-25s age bracket.

I was just growing fond of the restyled ZS, until a few weeks ago the ZS180 was on my shortlist for "Adam's next car".

As Wood says, the marketing director obviously didn't do his job very well, or people would have bought their cars.

 

[masona]

I am 24 so don't really remember the "bad old days" of BL.

I remembered "Red Robbo" did a lot of damaged in the 1970, here

He was blamed for over 500 disputes

 

[Thermo]

youve got to consider more jobs than just those at rover. Many of the suppliers, local to the area for components will suffer, as will the local economy eg shops etc, so it will have a knock on effect.
Puts it into perspective though when a chinese consortium wants to take it over and doesnt want the pensions millstone around its neck

 

[2scoops0406]

I am 24 so don't really remember the "bad old days" of BL. In fact, my first memories of BL cars are my Mum's Austin Princess c1984 and my Grandad's Austin Ambassador c1986.

I think you do, they were amongst the sh1test cars ever built, along with the Morris Ital

As to blaming the government, well strictly you can't, a bail out would be a state subsidy which is against EU law.

So it is goodbye. Sadly

 

[david and julie]

I have heard it mentioned several times on the news about our helping Rover being against EU rules, these rules do seem a little odd though to say the least. We cannot help Rover but can give their suppliers £40M to help them find alternative work. Also due to so many job losses in one area it would qualify for regional grant aid which will give grants to companies to relocate there, then close down elsewhere. We are also going to have to pay dole, social or why to the staff from Rover, some of whom will never work again. None of this includes the knock on effect which is reckoned to raise the total around 20,000 jobs. On top of this it looks like the pension fund could be £67M light too, which the new PPF will have to find.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4424297.stm

Now I am not suggesting we keep lame ducks with poor products going indefinitely but there are times when the EU rules should be less rigid if it makes financial or social sense. It is pathetic that we ( the UK and the EU) expect the Chinese to bail Rover out.

According to the news tonight though there was one bright spot on the horizon, the directors have their pension in a different scheme and apparently, surprisingly , theirs is up to date!

 

[ninebob]

To put simply, the reason for the decline is that once you get a reputation for making rubbish cars it tends to stick. I once had a montego and it was absolutely awful (I was going to say the worst car I ever owned, but that accolade has to sit fairly and squarely on the doorstep of a certain Vauxhall Frontera).

Look at Skoda - nowadays they're VWs in all but name and they're by all accounts marvellous cars. But the stigma still lives on and many people won't buy them. Rover seem to have fallen into the same trap by getting well known for making rust buckets with scandalous build quality, so nobody wants them any more, even if they pull out all the stops to improve.

 

[kevplumb]

wasnt BL losing about a million a week at one time of the taxpayers money

 

[Sparky Jim]

The Government is partly to blame, they always state we should "Buy British", yet they have never insisted that all public service vehicle be manufactured in the UK. How different would Rovers fortunes have been if the Government had insisted that all marked Police cars and NON-CID cars be Rover? What about Councils, the NHS, and all other Public Service bodies and Agencies? Had they all bought Rover cars, then perhaps Rover would not be in trouble, and could afford the kind of advertising that would restore a once great name to it's lofty heights.

 

[david and julie]

The problem is again the EU or to be more correct the way our public bodies rigidly play by the EU rules, tenders for the supply of goods in the public sector now have to be offered EU wide, hence the reason why we have foreign fire engines, ambulances etc. We seem to obey the rules to the letter whilst the continentals have a different approach. Next time you see an emergency in another EU state on the telly,look at the vehicles the emergency services use, they are almost always home produced.

I once read that they read the specs of any suitable vehicles and then narrowly define the tender criteria so that only the home grown variant can fully fit the bill. This is actually blatant fiddling of EU rules but they can get away with it. We should do the same but our public bodies don't give a toss and why would they? they are all on jobs and pensions for life.

Why would the loss 20000 jobs bother your average civil servant?

 

[securespark]

I too have been a huge fan of BL down the years - fantastic ideas with poor execution.

The problem has been lack of investment. For years they have used stuff from the same parts bin to cut costs.

I moved my niece recently, and hired a 54 plate LDV Luton. The interior door handles were exactly the same as the ones in my Dad's 1962 1100.

BMW I hate with venom.

They took over Rover. OK, they were losing money, but they stayed just long enough to sniff out the most profitable brands from them, then they f'd off.

They took the SUV range, snaffled the idea for a mini replacement, and left the dregs.

How Phoenix/Towers were supposed to make a profit on car designs dating back to the early 90's, I don't know. But they did work wonders initially, cutting losses hugely after BMW left.

See this great website for the struggling cash-strapped history of BL.

www.austin-rover.co.uk/wsindexf.htm

 

[kendor]

I bet that lot won't be voting Labour and I'm surprised Blair didn't see it as vote grabbing near the election time!
Having said this, we don't really know the full story.

On the news they mentioned that by saying the prime minister would have liked to have done so knowing the damage to votes it may cause so near to an election but couldn't justify doing so in light of there being no guarantee of a partnership with the chinese in doing so would be putting taxpayers money at risk.

 

[kendor]

The Government is partly to blame, they always state we should "Buy British", yet they have never insisted that all public service vehicle be manufactured in the UK. How different would Rovers fortunes have been if the Government had insisted that all marked Police cars and NON-CID cars be Rover? What about Councils, the NHS, and all other Public Service bodies and Agencies? Had they all bought Rover cars, then perhaps Rover would not be in trouble, and could afford the kind of advertising that would restore a once great name to it's lofty heights.

It's all down to that policy called "free enterprise" ie non interference from government.
And whose government brought this in?
don't get me wrong i'm all for companies being self supportive, though there's no harm in government loans if they can be secured properly.

 

[kendor]

The problem is again the EU or to be more correct the way our public bodies rigidly play by the EU rules, tenders for the supply of goods in the public sector now have to be offered EU wide, hence the reason why we have foreign fire engines, ambulances etc. We seem to obey the rules to the letter whilst the continentals have a different approach. Next time you see an emergency in another EU state on the telly,look at the vehicles the emergency services use, they are almost always home produced.

I once read that they read the specs of any suitable vehicles and then narrowly define the tender criteria so that only the home grown variant can fully fit the bill. This is actually blatant fiddling of EU rules but they can get away with it. We should do the same but our public bodies don't give a toss and why would they? they are all on jobs and pensions for life.

Why would the loss 20000 jobs bother your average civil servant?

I'm not sure if you are aware of a grace period with eu rules i know being a spark that many rules in my trade have had this period of grace, colour coding of cables is one where we have had more than 20 years to comply.
so it probably is the same in these other countries, eventually all will have to comply as an when they get their acts together.

then when all countries comply to all rules the eu will not look so one sided to some.

as i've said in the past it's a mammoth task in bringing all this legislation together and is not going to be an overnight job, especially if obstacles are put in the way such as an electorate voting against policymakers.

we need to either give the system a chance(this may not happen in our lifetime but for our children) or leave now and perhaps regret the move in the future, would you like to take that risk? would you have the knowledge that your move would be the correct one to take?

That's why i believe it's best left to the experts and like a lot of things in life put your trust in others more suited to the job.

whatever decision the public come to let's hope it's the correct one for all our sakes.

 

[Sparky Jim]

Kendor, your comments about free enterprise are correct, but why is the British Government the only one on the planet that actually sticks to this doctrine.

All other nations look after their industry and use public funds to support them by buying their products, and they do this openly.

Our Governments make me sick and then they have the cheel to wonder why a) we don't trust them and 2) we are so apathetic to voting.

 

[kendor]

well someone has to show initiative and follow the rules
But seriously the legislation will mean that countries will eventually have to comply, all britain has done is to get it's own house in order as soon as possible to avoid any conflict.