Grant vortex 21e - No power to burner

[davegeezzer]

Hi guys
I seem to have 2 x problems, the boiler pressure keeps rapidly dropping and the burner is dead.

I've a vortex 21e, It continuously drops the pressure from 1.5bar to zero in a couple of hours and I've water coming out of the condensing pipe. I checked the pressure vessel schreider valve and had less the 5psi, I turned the boiler off over night then this morning topped the pressure upto 1bar, again the boiler pressure drops within a couple of hours so I'm thinking the pressure vessel is shot.
I've now closed the cental heating flow and return valves on the top of the boiler and waiting to see if it drops.

On the front panel I have light - Power, DHW pump, Demand. The DHW pump is running The reset button on the panel is in,on the burner the reset button is in and oil flows from the bleed screw.
When I checked the pcb I've power to the board, the blow fuse is OK but I've no power to the burner terminals on the board, should this be a permanent live or just power when called for? I checked continuity on the cable from the burner terminals to the burner and all is good.

I'm now stumped so any advice would be very appreciated!!

 

[Exedon]

Have you power each side of pressure switch connections?
If necessary you can link it out the later models don't have a pressure switch fitted,

 

[davegeezzer]

Have you power each side of pressure switch connections?
If necessary you can link it out the later models don't have a pressure switch fitted,

Hi Exedon mine must be a later model as its already has a link in terminal 15-16.

 

[Exedon]

The 21e is the earlier model so its obviously had pressure switch removed.
The burner only has power on demand .
Assuming you do have live on both sides of overheat stat next suspect is probably the board
Not spilled water have you? I've see a few where customers have tried venting heating pump and killed the board.

 

[davegeezzer]

The 21e is the earlier model so its obviously had pressure switch removed.
The burner only has power on demand .
Assuming you do have live on both sides of overheat stat next suspect is probably the board
Not spilled water have you? I've see a few where customers have tried venting heating pump and killed the board.

Ahh OK thank you, after looking at it all morning it's just fired up! Which is great but doesn't tell me what the problem was, I've ordered a new pressure vessel so that should hopefully solve the pressure drop, could the burner not kicking in just have been a airlock because of loosing all boiler pressure?

 

[Agile]

You have said you have water coming out of the condensing vent pipe.

That implies a split main heat exchanger!

I am not familiar with your boiler but that would usually be a serious fault and potentially an expensive repair.

Running it very long in this condition will give severe sludging up as the new water coming in will be full of oxygen and rust the insides of the rads!

 

[davegeezzer]

Morning good people

I've now fitted a new pressure vessel but the boiler pressure is still rapidly dropping ( 1.5Bar - zero in 3-4 hr) can anyone please advise what I should be looking at next. Where is the pressure going?

 

[dilalio]

Not familiar with boiler but, as with most boilers, you could disconnect and dry out the condense connection, raise the pressure to 2.5bar, isolate the flow and return from the CH system and leave the boiler OFF.

Then monitor for water coming out of the condense pipe.

This should confirm if hex is split as per @Agile.

Only do this if you've confirmed the leak is not on the CH system.

AND that the PRV is not letting by.

 

[davegeezzer]

Not familiar with boiler but, as with most boilers, you could disconnect and dry out the condense connection, raise the pressure to 2.5bar, isolate the flow and return from the CH system and leave the boiler OFF.

Then monitor for water coming out of the condense pipe.

This should confirm if hex is split as per @Agile.

Only do this if you've confirmed the leak is not on the CH system.

AND that the PRV is not letting by.

Cheers bud, I'll do this tonight and leave it overnight - boiler off, bag over the condence pipe and the flow&return isolated, will report back in the morning.

 

[dilalio]

Cheers bud, I'll do this tonight and leave it overnight - boiler off, bag over the condence pipe and the flow&return isolated, will report back in the morning.

PRV /discharge not dripping/wet is it?
Dry it off on the outside and then put your finger or a bit of tissue on the inside... At the rate you're losing pressure I expect it to be dripping if letting by.

 

[davegeezzer]

PRV /discharge not dripping/wet is it?
Dry it off on the outside and then put your finger or a bit of tissue on the inside... At the rate you're losing pressure I expect it to be dripping if letting by.

NO the PRV is fine - unfortunately

 

[Exedon]

If boiler is leaking chances are it's the main hex I've never seen the secondry stainless steel hex leak on a Grant.
Have a really good look round base of boiler and the heat store.
When boiler fires up from cold is there almost immediately excessive plume from flue?
You can have a quick look inside by taking out burner and shining a touchinside.

 

[davegeezzer]

If boiler is leaking chances are it's the main hex I've never seen the secondry stainless steel hex leak on a Grant.
Have a really good look round base of boiler and the heat store.
When boiler fires up from cold is there almost immediately excessive plume from flue?
You can have a quick look inside by taking out burner and shining a touchinside.

OK I turned the boiler off last nite and filled the pressure to 2bar, shut the CH flow and return valves and bagged the condensate pipe.
This morning - 12hr later the pressure had dropped just a couple of psi and the bag over the condensate pipe was dry.
There is a slight staining around the base of the boiler and when fired up this morning there was a white plume out of the flue for a couple of minutes.
So does this mean the main HE has a slight leak, and the pipe work has a bigger leak? I trawled the Internet last nite looking for a main HE but couldn't find one anywhere or even a part number! All I kept reading was get a new boiler!

My father in law used to work for Worcester bosch back in the day and installed this boiler and a Heatslave 15/19 in another property for me, when he retired he gave me boxes of spares for both boilers ( no HE though lol) , my Heatslave is like triggers broom! If you can't buy a new HE is there anyone that would refurbish my one?