Guns

[BoxBasher]

It is part of the answer, like placing traffic lights on pedestrian crossings to prevent crazy drivers 'running-wild'.

"Crazy Drivers" still go through red lights at pedestrian crossings , major junctions, level crossings. The presence of the red light makes no difference other than to stop law abiding people (who probably weren't planning on running over a pedestrian anyway).

Whats wrong with proper education and enforcement?


Another example of "the answer" not being the right one...

The company I work for has recently insisted we wear hi-visibility jackets at all times when on or alongside the highway - including when walking along a pavement.

Five weeks ago we were out operating valves when a girl in a car pulling out of her driveway was that intent in looking at what we were doing (probably drew to the yellow jackets) that she mucked up her pedals. She shot out of her drive on full lock, mounted the kerb and missed me by inches (after me diving to the side).

If somebody is that badly out of control of their vehicle to mount the pavement (be it through stupidity, impairment or mechanical mishap) what difference is a yellow waistcoat going to make?

What one person saw as a good idea for increasing safety has absolutely no bearing on the actual outcome of a situation.

 

[Stulz]

Without wishing to intorduce unecessary stereotyping, the problem in many western nations is a comnination of bad education, bad parenting, an indifferent societal responce to the needs of children and epecially tennagers, a seeming disenfranchised sub-culture within the teenage communities and a society that does not take extreme measures to protect itself against those who would put lives at risk.

Guns are not the problem, they are a symptom, unfortuanley an all too often tragic one, but banning Guns is not as simple as many make it sound. There are millions of guns in circulation in the US, simply banning them does not make them go away, especially as US authorities admit that some 20% of firearms in circulation are held illegally.

It is the root cause of the problems in society that require addressing, extreme measures are required to deal with those who deal in drugs, use firearms to commit crimes or even simply carry them as status symbols. The Politicians need to take extreme measures.

It may sound a little cold, but I am not overly concerned with what occurs in the US, but I am concerned with my own doorstep, it is the problems in this country we need to tackle, not those of another natiuon that has all the resources available to it to tackle the problem, but chooses not too for outdated and business interest reasons.

 

[BoxBasher]

It may sound a little cold, but I am not overly concerned with what occurs in the US, but I am concerned with my own doorstep, it is the problems in this country we need to tackle, not those of another natiuon that has all the resources available to it to tackle the problem, but chooses not too for outdated and business interest reasons.

+1

Amen to that!

 

[Moz]

regarding Gun Control ....
the UK hasnt got one ..lol ....maybe the law abiding 95% of the Pop are controlled

but I know...
I can leave my house now ,
drive 15 mins to a rough boozer ,

see a few lads an get tooled up within 12 hrs ,
with an assortment ..

a hand gun ,revolver /semi/autos..

a shotgun , single barrel/double barrel +sawn off....

a 7.62mm hunting rifle ...bolt action/semi autos.....
machine gun , 9mm uzi ,H an K MP5 SMG ,even an old ww2 sten mk2 SMG ...
ammo is VERY VERY EXPENSIVE ....though

now you need money .....
you can rent above for 12 hrs ,
Or own it far dearer ....



NOT FORGETTING the BIG ONE ......

A strong enough DESIRE/HATRED for using them + the consequences *Life * behind bars ...just being caught with one ...(quite right too )

most Manc drug dealers only use shooters on their own/Taxing ...

google, manchester drug gangs...

most Youths carry knifes an they are far worse a menace ...
used when the *Moron* ...
is drunk/larey/mobbed up ...

thats our Major prob above .....Youth Knife crime !!

 

[ColJack]

only skimmed this post so forgive me if i repeat a point already made..

the students tha were shot were denied their right to bear arms by the campus policy..

at least one student and one teacher were killed while trying to stop the shooter..

had they had guns themselves then the death toll could have been far fewer by someone shooting the shooter early on..

if the police or campus security were around then they would have done it.
(asuming that the campus security carried something stonger than pepper spray.. )

I would never dream of shooting someone in cold blood but if some nutter was running down the street shooting people and I had access to a weapon to stop him before he hurt me or mine then I would do it in a heart beat..
(at which point I would probably be shot dead by the arriving armed response team who mistook me for being the nutter.. )

 

[trotter]

only skimmed this post so forgive me if i repeat a point already made..

the students tha were shot were denied their right to bear arms by the campus policy..

at least one student and one teacher were killed while trying to stop the shooter..

had they had guns themselves then the death toll could have been far fewer by someone shooting the shooter early on..

if the police or campus security were around then they would have done it.
(asuming that the campus security carried something stonger than pepper spray.. )

I would never dream of shooting someone in cold blood but if some nutter was running down the street shooting people and I had access to a weapon to stop him before he hurt me or mine then I would do it in a heart beat..
(at which point I would probably be shot dead by the arriving armed response team who mistook me for being the nutter.. )

It may not have been so easy in the mayhem to suss who was doing the shooting, and who is shooting at the shooter. Think about it. Carnage.

The other argument about 'should we ban hammers' - no for a simple reason. They are not designed as lethal weapons. Guns are.

The pro-gun people come up with defensive, negative arguments about banning hammers, and defending yourself from other people with guns (how silly is that reasoning btw? Solution to a problem - create more of the problem?).

I see no positive reasoning about why they should be allowed though.

 

[ColJack]

(bear with me on this.. )
did you not see the simpsons episode where lisa wished all weapons to not exist?
the aliens invaded and took over the planet.. at which point someone chased them off with a stick with a nail in it..

my point is that even if you ban guns, then someone who wishes to harm another will find a way, albeit with a pointy stick, knife, homemade explosive or even at the wheel of a vehicle..

guns are not inherantly bad.. they don't kill, the person aiming it and pulling the trigger kills.

they are designed to kill yes, but the same can be said of a carving knife.. it's sole purpous is to cut flesh and can easily be turned to use cutting people..

now I'm not saying we should all have guns, but those that choose to do so do it either for hunting or for the protection of themselves or family..

 

[Rob]

lol..it was Moe.

 

[JohnD]

It is much easier, physically and mentally, and quicker, to kill people with a gun than with a pointy stick.

 

[Balenza]

Coljack wrote

but the same can be said of a carving knife

I agree.
Look at Rawanda a few years ago. They chopped each other to pieces with machetes and no one batted an eyelid.
I own three guns. A pump action. An O/U double barrel and a .22 air rifle. Though I would rarely use them to kill anything unless it was necessary.
I live on a farm in the sticks so can just blast away at will at anything that moves basically if I wanted.
They do give you a sense of security I must admit. The pump action is an awesome weapon. Very dangerous !.
When I am old I would like to own a handgun to protect myself as they are so easy to handle and not cumbersome like the shotguns.
As they are not easily legally got hold of in this country I may have to opt for an illegally held firearm.
Unfoutuanetly the government has forced me to take this stance. I am not concerned about prison as all the jails are all full up anyway.
I have a lot of elderly neighbours who have been burgulared by young senseless thugs from the cities stealing money to fund their drug habit.(Yes,its even spread to the sticks)
If they are caught they are given a slap on the wrist and released and re-offend.
These peoles lives are ruined and never recover from the brutality they are subjected to.
As time goes by and society continues to break down this trend will get worse.
When my time comes I hope to be prepared for them and will not hesitate . Payback time.

 

[NickStone]

When my time comes I hope to be prepared for them and will not hesitate . Payback time.

I'd guess a lot of people feel the same, Balenza - although many might not admit it. I belonged to a pistol-shooting gun club at the time of the Dunblane shooting. As a kneejerk reaction to this nutter, all pistols were banned. Everyone in our club had to hand in their pistols, as did every other club in the country. Did gun crime go down? No, it didn't. There's an interesting newspaper article written in 2003 about this, predicting that London would catch up with New York in terms of fatal shootings (at the time, the rates were converging). This prediction is starting to come true. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2003/01/05/do0502.xml

 

[Balenza]

Totally agree Nick.

Mark steyn wrote

In my part of New Hampshire, we're all armed to the hilt and any gangster who fancied holding up a gas station would be quickly ventilated by guys whose pick-ups are better equipped than most EU armies. The right of individual self-defence deters crime, constrains it, prevents it from spreading out of the drug-infested failed jurisdictions. In post-Dunblane, post-Tony Martin Britain, that constraint doesn't exist: that's why the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea now has a higher crime rate than Harlem.

The statistics are not available obviously but how many lives are saved every year in America due to would be criminals being deterred by knowing that the local population are armed to the teeth.

The police dont protect my elderly vulnerable neighbours from drug addict scum or criminals.
The government have abolished any legislation that might deter them and have practically legalised drugs.
Thats why I want to keep myself well armed in the future.
The government dont see that as my right and will want to jail me if I aqquire an illegally held gun. They wont know about it though.
If its the choice of being coshed over the head as an elderly person or having the chance to produce a loaded gun to my attackers and risk being sent to jail afterwards then I choose the latter as I have a good chance of staying alive.

 

[bernardgreen]

I belonged to a pistol-shooting gun club at the time of the Dunblane shooting. As a kneejerk reaction to this nutter, all pistols were banned. Everyone in our club had to hand in their pistols, as did every other club in the country. Did gun crime go down? No, it didn't.

Did you have any "gun fetish" members, those unfit to own a hand gun but who were able to indulge their fetish with borrowed pistols at the club under strict supervision by other members ?

If so where are they now. Probably bought an illegal pistol and are now open to blackmail or pressure to assist in criminal activity.

Knee jerk that has probably slightly increased crimes involving hand guns.

 

[NickStone]

Did you have any "gun fetish" members, those unfit to own a hand gun but who were able to indulge their fetish with borrowed pistols at the club under strict supervision by other members ?

Not that I recall. I do remember that one of the first things I was taught was how to handle a gun safely, including NEVER pointing it at a human being. You weren't even allowed to load your ammunition without safety checks.

 

[ColJack]

I am planning on going to las vegas later in the year, at which point i will spend the biggest part of at least one day down at the local shooting range playing with as many different types of guns that I can get my hands on to get it out of my system..