Hatch to subfloor

[Dylan123]

That is unusual construction, they normally have lots of gaps to enable air to flow under the floor, to prevent joint and floor rot, plus of course access below without making lots of access holes in the floor.

There are some gaps but not big enough to get a human through. Enough to get cables and pipes through.

Plenty of air bricks, and I can feel airflow when I’m down there - noticeable.

bascially the internal walls all go down to the foundation level, but under doorways it’s bricked up AND there is a low brick wall in the middle of the dining and living room.

the joists are all 4 by 2. I assume this is to keep the spans short.

the house was finished 7/7/1939.

wouid it be possible there was a shortage of larger joists due to impending war?

My assumption would be no, as the war broke out in sept but I would have guessed that materials weren’t being restricted that early but I could easily be wrong. Our main bomber at that time the Wellington was timber construction.

My neighbour (end terrace) seemed to say he can crawl everywhere underneath his, but there is no way I could do that. The gaps are way too small

As for ventilation, the joists have been here 90 years and dry.

the floorboards are pine and the probe says 11-13% moisture but that was in very humid and hot weather. Slightly high by the limited info I have but this house seems to have been fine for a very long time

 

[Dylan123]

That is unusual construction, they normally have lots of gaps to enable air to flow under the floor, to prevent joint and floor rot, plus of course access below without making lots of access holes in the floor.

Got some pics

the top ones are under dining room lower ones under the stairs.

plenty of room for air but there is no way I can move about down there!

I don’t know if this is normal, if so, I presume working down here is just for small guys who weigh less than I do!

The ones under the kitchen wall don’t appear to have mortar and are just piled up!

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Those gaps I would judge to be fairly normal gaps which I would have got through when I was younger. I would suggest you really ought to make that access hole, on the chance they send a suitably sized person for any under-floor work.

 

[Dylan123]

Those gaps I would judge to be fairly normal gaps which I would have got through when I was younger. I would suggest you really ought to make that access hole, on the chance they send a suitably sized person for any under-floor work.

haha, well I am 6 foot 2 and a 34 waist.

I have made the hatch under the stairs. I took one look at the gaps and just assumed I would damage the pipes which are there. I don’t know which ones are old and which ones are “live” and I feel like I’m going to knock those bricks down getting through there!

 

[Captain Nemesis]

The alternate option is to cut the board to the side of the joist using the joist as a cut guide for you hand saw and then fix a baton to the each joist to support the shorter cut board.

Thats what Ive always done - works fine, no problems.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

the joists are all 4 by 2. I assume this is to keep the spans short.

the house was finished 7/7/1939.

wouid it be possible there was a shortage of larger joists due to impending war?

No. The "phoney war" (or "Sitzkreig") may well have started in September 1939, but other than naval activity (e.g the River Plate incident) and some activity by the RAF war "proper" didn't start until the Norwegian Campaign in 1940, so there were no materials restrictions.

Our main bomber at that time the Wellington was timber construction

On fact our bomber force at the start of WWII was less than 400 aircraft. Of the medium bombers both Hampdens and Whitleys were as important as the Wellingtons, and in light bombers the mainstays were the Blenheims and Fairey Battles. There were also a number of obsolete types such as the Bombay and Wellesley (which also featured a geodetic framework) still in service.

The Wellington's geodetic frame was designed by Barnes Wallis (of R100 and later bouncing bomb, Tall Boy, Grand Slam and variable geometry wing fame). It was made up of W-shaped duralumin frames, not wood, riveted together and covered with a doped fabric skin (sorry, bit of a WWII history buff)

 

[Dylan123]

No. The "phoney war" may have started in September 1939, but other than naval activity and some activity by the RAF war "proper" didn't start until the Norwegian Campaign in 1940, do there were no restrictions.


On fact our bomber force at the starg of WWII was less than 400 aircraft. Of the medium bombers both Hampdens and Whitleys were as important as the Wellingtons, and in light bombers the mainstays were the Blenheims and Fairey Battles. There were also a number of obsolete types such as the Bombay and Wellesley (which also featured a geodetic framework) still in service.

The Wellington's geodetic frame was designed by Barnes Wallis (of R100 and later bouncing bomb, Tall Boy, Grand Slam and variable geometry wing fame). It was made up of W-shaped duralumin frames riveted together and coveted with a doped fabric skin (sorry, bit of a WWII history buff)

me too! I am an avid fan of wellies and their innovative construction. Barnes Wallace classic!

The shortages yes I agree that was much later, I was more speculating at that point if given Hitler had already invaded Czech at that point whether there were preparations in hand. Highly unlikely but I am not sure how long war was anticipated or whether it was purely done in reaction to the invasion of Poland. I wonder if you know? Was it still “peace for our time” in July 39?

otherwise a very intersting read. Ww2 aircraft are my particular interests, didn’t know hampdens and whitleys were as widely produced as the welly.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

They came out of the same procedure to procure medium bombers in 1936. If you are interested in Wallis's designs, there's a web site run by the Barnes Wallis foundation. Fascinating man, brilliant engineer

AFAIK there were no restrictions on construction materials until after Dunkirk but it's worth remembering that on "the day War broke out" (to quote Robb Wilton) Britain was still in the tail end of a recession which had started in 1929, so materials would have potentially been scarcer for that reason

 

[Dylan123]

They came out of the same procedure to procure medium bombers in 1936. If you are interested in Wallis's designs, there's a web site r.un by the Barnes Wallis foundation. Fascinating man, brilliant engineer

AFAIK there were no restrictions on construction materials until after Dunkirk but it's worth remembering that on "the day War broke out" (to quote Robb Wilton) Britain was still in the tail end of a recession which had started in 1929, so materials would have potentially been scarcer for that reason

indeed. Although so many houses were built in that time. Most houses in my city are 30s. Perhaps it’s just here.

I’ll have a look at that website. Funny that his most impressive work is overshadowed by his most famous, the dam busters mission, which actually had very little strategic value.

I also love the mosquito. All wood construction, the Germans were amazed and what we could produce in piano factories from lumber! Now I have my mitre and a jigsaw I might try and knock one together

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I’ll have a look at that website. Funny that his most impressive work is overshadowed by his most famous, the dam busters mission, which actually had very little strategic value.

It stopped all production in the industrial Ruhr valley from the raid in May until September, so it definitely had strategic value and a moral one too.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

Most houses in my city are 30s.

They built them properly then.

I wonder how many houses built in the last 20 years will still be standing in another 80.

 

[Dylan123]

It stopped all production in the industrial Ruhr valley from the raid in May until September, so it definitely had strategic value and a moral one too.

Harris thought it was a waste of resources.
Having re-read about it this morning I’m with you.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Yes, but following the dam raids he did become a lot more receptive to Wallis's ideas which later resulted in the Tall Boy and finally the Grand Slam bombs, which had a significant effect on the conduct of the war (e.g. Tirpitz, Wizernes V-weapon site, Saumur tunnel, Watten V-2 site, Mimoyeques V-3 site, etc). Harris was often very stubborn, though, believing that he could defeat Germany by air power alone and ttht, for example, allocating VLR Liberators to Coastal Command to close the mid-Atlantic gap was a waste of resource.

Did you know that the bouncing bomb development and manufacture was paid for by Vickers, and that only after thecraid did the Air Ministry pay for them?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Did you know that the bouncing bomb development and manufacture was paid for by Vickers, and that only after thecraid did the Air Ministry pay for them?

No, I wasn't aware of that. Many things, small details, happened during the war which only now are surfacing.

I was watching a program in bed last night, about a US female code breaker. I fell asleep soon after it began, but at the beginning it seemed to hint at her having broken the German's 4 letter code, as eventually decoded by the UK at Bletchley.

 

[Dylan123]

No, I wasn't aware of that. Many things, small details, happened during the war which only now are surfacing.

I was watching a program in bed last night, about a US female code breaker. I fell asleep soon after it began, but at the beginning it seemed to hint at her having broken the German's 4 letter code, as eventually decoded by the UK at Bletchley.

you have to temper that against the media/current obsession with rewriting history through the lens of a tyrannical male patriachy.

hence I can’t believe much of it, because they set out with the narrative they want which is “western men conspired to write others out of history so we have to compensate”
While glossing over the scores of young men left screaming for their mothers and horrifically burned and maimed. Because those young lads were oppressors, according to them.

it’s a shame because women made a massive contribution to the war effort.
As an example, the BBC did a documentary on the Wellington. Most of the programme was about how it was built by women and how this led to empowerment. This is true, but I want to watch a programme about the Wellington. Not the social narrative they are obsessed with.