Health tourisim to object to it means your a racist !

[Brigadier]

Hard - earned though.

 

[Bodd]

Hard - earned though.

I tip my hat to the man. He's good

 

[SirGalahad]

Is there an issue with Health Tourism. Yes
Is this issue totally blown out of proportion. Yes
Are there way way more pressing concerns in the NHS. Yes

 

[JohnD]

Here's UK public spending

And here's what it looks like if you shave off 0.3% from the Health segment. See the difference?

 

[JP_]

This is interesting ...

Deliberate health tourism means those who come to the UK deliberately to use NHS services they’re not entitled to for free. Those taking advantage of the system are those who frequently come to the UK and are able to use GP services and other treatments like prescriptions. This could even include British expats who return to the UK to see a trusted doctor. It is this group the Mirror refers to when it says that health tourism costs 0.3% of NHS spending.It is this group the Mirror refers to when it says that health tourism costs 0.3% of NHS spending. linky

I thought I'd look into this as,well, it is not easy to get treatment in this country, as much as some people claim. I have always been asked who I am when making a GP appointment, and to get registered you need to show ID and proof of residential status etc. The info about using the NHS makes it clear that A&E is free, but other services have to be paid for. So it raises the question, who is managing to use the service when they shouldn't?

Seems many of the people abusing the system are those that have already taken their wealth overseas, no longer contribute to the UK economy, and then pop back for some free health care when they need it.

More here: https://fullfact.org/health/health-tourists-how-much-do-they-cost-and-who-pays/

Seems that the cost of the "real" health tourism is £110 million and £280 million a year, which in the grand scheme of things is small change.
On an average day, 1,000,000 people visit a GP, and 100,000 people are admitted into hospital (about half A&E) (source). If we insisted more thorough checks on every admission, and took a very optimistic guess that it will take 2 minutes per person, that would be ..... 36,666 extra hours work every day, at minimum way of £8.21/hr, an additional cost of £301,000 a day, or £109,877,166 a year. Kinda makes sense why the government is not put more resources into extra checks really.

Anyway, as for the "Health tourism to object to it means your a racist" title of the thread, it does seem that this is indeed a daft to call people racist for objecting, because most health tourists are British, or American or Australians with recent family ties to the country. About 5,000,000 Brits live overseas, and many are not entitled to NHS services for free, but some will come and get it anyway. But I don't suppose that will change the argument.

 

[JohnD]

I wonder if Gasbag started this thread because he objects to retired British plumbers who have moved to a Anglophone settlement in Spain, coming back to see their old GP.

I suspect not.

Looking on the bright side, if they did, they would not have "cut their ties" with the UK so they would be due to pay UK tax. That's good.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I don't really know how all this works so can't really contribute.

Just to say when getting residence here, people have to show that they were covered for health costs in their previous country - for reciprocal arrangements.
Coming from the UK nothing has to be proved because they accept that all are/were covered by the NHS.

Had I arrived from the US, for example, I suppose proof of valid insurance there would be required.
I don't know how this would continue for permanent immigration.

 

[Bodd]

most health tourists are British, or American or Australians

Some British expats would argue that they have paid their bit and are entitled. I'm not so sure. They chose to live elsewhere and take their money. So should either have insurance or stay in their adopted country.

My Aunti from the USA has come back in the past to keep her British pension going, what she has to do I'm not sure. But she gets a British pension. She's not paid into the system from the age of 21.
As for American and Australian health tourist. Thats no more right than a Mongolian or an Egyptian.

However we do have an agreement with Australia for access to each others healthcare. Maybe Visa dependant.

 

[Mottie]

This is interesting ...

Deliberate health tourism means those who come to the UK deliberately to use NHS services they’re not entitled to for free. Those taking advantage of the system are those who frequently come to the UK and are able to use GP services and other treatments like prescriptions. This could even include British expats who return to the UK to see a trusted doctor. It is this group the Mirror refers to when it says that health tourism costs 0.3% of NHS spending.It is this group the Mirror refers to when it says that health tourism costs 0.3% of NHS spending. linky

I thought I'd look into this as,well, it is not easy to get treatment in this country, as much as some people claim. I have always been asked who I am when making a GP appointment, and to get registered you need to show ID and proof of residential status etc. The info about using the NHS makes it clear that A&E is free, but other services have to be paid for. So it raises the question, who is managing to use the service when they shouldn't?

Seems many of the people abusing the system are those that have already taken their wealth overseas, no longer contribute to the UK economy, and then pop back for some free health care when they need it.

More here: https://fullfact.org/health/health-tourists-how-much-do-they-cost-and-who-pays/

Seems that the cost of the "real" health tourism is £110 million and £280 million a year, which in the grand scheme of things is small change.
On an average day, 1,000,000 people visit a GP, and 100,000 people are admitted into hospital (about half A&E) (source). If we insisted more thorough checks on every admission, and took a very optimistic guess that it will take 2 minutes per person, that would be ..... 36,666 extra hours work every day, at minimum way of £8.21/hr, an additional cost of £301,000 a day, or £109,877,166 a year. Kinda makes sense why the government is not put more resources into extra checks really.

Anyway, as for the "Health tourism to object to it means your a racist" title of the thread, it does seem that this is indeed a daft to call people racist for objecting, because most health tourists are British, or American or Australians with recent family ties to the country. About 5,000,000 Brits live overseas, and many are not entitled to NHS services for free, but some will come and get it anyway. But I don't suppose that will change the argument.

All very well and good but go down to any main town hospital, go into the A&E dept and see how many non-UK residents are in there waiting to be seen by a doctor - you’ll hardly hear a word of English spoken. Then go and see how many of those sitting there are suffering from an accident or an emergency. Not many. Non-eligible people regularly use A&E as a free doctor when they don’t have one for coughs, colds, rashes, sore throats etc etc. I’ll now sit back and wait for the usual suspects to rubbish that statement and call me a racist. It’ll just be deflection though.

 

[JP_]

So, you're saying there are all these people that can afford to get on an aeroplane and fly to the UK, just to then sit in a hospital for 10 hours waiting to see a doctor about their sore throat - and that the receptionists agree to let them see a doctor too, rather than suggest they see a pharmacist? I find that hard to believe. More likely they live here already and have been unable to get a GP appointment and have more serious problems that you can see. As for not speaking English, the only time I spent any length of time in a foreign hospital I did not speak the local language. I wonder what they thought about me there ...

 

[EFLImpudence]

Some British expats would argue that they have paid their bit and are entitled. I'm not so sure. They chose to live elsewhere and take their money. So should either have insurance or stay in their adopted country.

My Aunti from the USA has come back in the past to keep her British pension going, what she has to do I'm not sure. But she gets a British pension. She's not paid into the system from the age of 21.
As for American and Australian health tourist. Thats no more right than a Mongolian or an Egyptian.

However we do have an agreement with Australia for access to each others healthcare. Maybe Visa dependant.

You are just saying things, some of which don't make sense, and then admitting you do not know about them.

 

[JP_]

Some facts from Channel 4 ... they looked at A&E waiting times and non-British populations, their conclusion:
"there’s no correlation between the proportion of immigrants in an area and the performance of local A&E departments."

e.g.

For example, about 31 per cent of people in North West London are not from the UK. That’s the highest rate of non-Brits of anywhere in England. But local A&E departments do pretty well – ranking 15th out of 43.

The region covering Milton Keynes, Bedfordshire and Luton has one of the largest immigrant communities in England (we estimate about 13 per cent of the general population is not British), but ranks sixth best in terms of A&E performance.

And at the other end of the scale, there are plenty of regions (Lancashire and South Cumbria, Staffordshire, and Shropshire for example) that rank low in terms of immigrant populations but where A&E departments are doing badly compared to others.


It really does seem that people are just making these problems up. Most likely people hear some non-British voices and then assume the room is full of foreigners and start complaining. But the statistics really don't seem to agree with this, and if anything, the areas where there are more immigrants have better hospital waiting times and fewer problems.

 

[JP_]

Some British expats would argue that they have paid their bit and are entitled.

they can argue that, but there are rules. Is it 3 years living abroad? i remember talking to guys that had been teaching overseas (many years ago now) and they complained about not being able to easily access some public services, although I forget now what - could have been grants for education.

There are obviously some rules in place for using NHS, probably too complex to figure on a Monday morning though!

 

[SirGalahad]

All very well and good but go down to any main town hospital, go into the A&E dept and see how many non-UK residents are in there waiting to be seen by a doctor - you’ll hardly hear a word of English spoken. Then go and see how many of those sitting there are suffering from an accident or an emergency. Not many. Non-eligible people regularly use A&E as a free doctor when they don’t have one for coughs, colds, rashes, sore throats etc etc. I’ll now sit back and wait for the usual suspects to rubbish that statement and call me a racist. It’ll just be deflection though.

Gaslighting by Mitty.

so based on what a person speaks or looks like you can determine their residence status.
Also you can determine their ailment.

Your wasted as an MOT guy. Yep its prejudiced but there is nothing wrong with that, thats your view. But dont try deny it by deflecting you dont harbour prejudice.

 

[ellal]

You are just saying things, some of which don't make sense, and then admitting you do not know about them.

That's Bodd's modus operandi!

Whichever head he chooses to put on at any one time