heating problem

[Tezzuk1]

Thanks for help

I guess ill go with the stars calcs and the whole house calcs and continue my reading and narrow down the actual U values of my construction, as getting anyone to tell me what rad i actually need seams a bit of a problem , why this is such a hard ask im not sure, which i guess is the main contractors get out

 

[Tezzuk1]

did a bit more digging and found a flat same as mine , altho there rads all in different positions and sizes but btu of living room and bedroom about same

there boiler was set same as mine was 19kw on d0 i checked there flow and return boiler was set to 70 and they have flow 71 return 68

they manage 20c during the day so long as not to cold out side (best i can get is 16) and you really feel difference from my flat , after about 4pm all winter months they have to also plug in a big oil filled electric rad in living room , the main difference was they had thick underlay and carpet in every room , i have laminate flooring in every room , also the outside wall in there bedroom which is 16 foot long has floor to celing built in wardrobes they also run there TRVs at max

surley when they spec rads they dont inc carpet ?

either way i still recon rads to small

 

[warmadmax]

just going to have to play the "the heating system isn't adequate" card with them until they yield,

pictures with thermostat set at 21 and a thermometer hung next to it showing 10c
then another with boiler flow and return temps, with the camera date and time stamp on it.


what sort of radiators did they put in? single panel with fins, double panel with 1 finned or double panel both finned?

your going to pay a lot to keep the place warm due to thermal losses regardless, at least you should be comfortable for it!

 

[Tezzuk1]

Thanks bathroom and hall single , living room double double fin bedroom double single fin they are stelarad compacts

I feel ive balanced rads a bit better (they never bothered) altho they still need to come back and put my TRV in bathroom on correct end ive used this to reduce return flow if it stays set that way who knows

Thanks to D hailshams suggestion i have now reduced my d0 to 8kw this has helped alot as now have flow of 76/77 and return on 70 on boiler def not on and off all time , stays on for longer and way better than the 75/74 i had

Ill keep pluging away at them but one way or another i will get or fit bigger rad in living room and and bedroom ,

again thanks for all who posted

 

[D_Hailsham]

they still need to come back and put my TRV in bathroom on correct end

May not be necessary!

If your TRV has two arrows at 90° on the metal body (most modern TRVs do), it does not matter which end they go. But if there is only one arrow, it must point in the direction of flow.

Although the TRV is on the return end, you still adjust the LS valve in the same way; all it is doing is setting the maximum flow rate through the radiator.

 

[Tezzuk1]

i did wonder about that and yes TRV dose have both arrows , i did try and balance this rad using locksheild 1st but unlike rest of rads both pipes were always red hot , so i opened up the locksheild on flow full turned down TRV only then did i get a difference and manage to reduce return temp

 

[D_Hailsham]

I did wonder about that and yes TRV does have both arrows , i did try and balance this rad using lockshield 1st but unlike rest of rads both pipes were always red hot

How far did you close the LS valve when using it to balance the rad?

It might be worth reading How to balance a CH system

 

[Tezzuk1]

i will open them all take of TRV tops see how it runs at the new 8Kw setting and see what temps i get on boiler , and then get installers back to do what they should have done in 1st place and commision it properly

But i will get some of the clip on thermomiters anyway

 

[Tezzuk1]

Ok now council will only accept Mears calculations and thats its and will not accept any other form of calclations

If anyone has a mears calculator could you please tell me size rad should be

Flat is on Ground floor , Living room 15x11x8 , solid concrete floor not insulated on dirt ,solid concrete ceiling also uninsulated, 1external 11x8 wall with full size DG door and 1.6mx1.8 DGm window pre 2002 so im gussing not the best this wall is 4inch brick with studded out dry lining on inside if i remmber there is a thin layer of insulation , party wall 15x8 is i belive 4inch block with dry ling each side , other 2 walls are just internal 4 inch stud work , i worked on -1 out side and 21c inside

PLEASE as this now been going on for over a year

But they are coming back to check boiler flow return ect tommoro to make sure its not a problem there

 

[D_Hailsham]

Ok now council will only accept Mears calculations and thats its and will not accept any other form of calclations

If anyone has a mears calculator could you please tell me size rad should be

Haven't got one and wouldn't waste my money on one.

Making some assumptions I used Stars to calculate the requirement for the living room as 1894W (6462 BTU), which is 25% more than the Mears result.

Your three rads add up to 11,259BTU or 3.3kW but the whole house calculator says 6.3kW. There's something wrong somewhere.

The latest version of the Government Approved Whole House calculator has not been turned into an on-line app yet, but you can download it. It's a pencil and paper exercise, unfortunately. I don't see how the council can argue with a methodology which has been approved by the Energy Saving Trust and based on work done by the Building Research Establishment.

If you have been having a running battle with the council for a year over this, it's time you got your local Councillor involved as well as the Environmental Health Dept of the council. Make sure you give them all your calculations etc.

 

[Tezzuk1]

thanks for that i made it a bit more but due to odd construction its all a bit of guess work , i made it to be on safe side a 7,000

Yes def something wrong as im Freezing LOL

Iv even spoke to Valiant gave them all readings and they suggested the rad output need to be checked !!!!! LOL wish i had thought of that , they also quoted an ideal flow of 75 and return of 55 , Iv just check my installers report when he commisioned boiler and it states quite clearly 75/74

they coming to check everything inc room stat , flow return ect ( for 3rd time) so will see how that gose

Big thank you for taking time out to work out rad for me as least i know im on right track

 

[D_Hailsham]

Please keep us updated, in this topic.

 

[Tezzuk1]

will do

thanks for that download seams to do a much better job of calc heat loss and well worth reading and using

esp the U vales based on age of building , of construction and good to see just how much difference in U value there is from pre 2002 DG to after

Thanks

Tezz

 

[Tezzuk1]

jusr a bit of an update for ya all it may help someone in futuer

Anyway had my big inspection of boiler and rad balanced using there proper gauges on each rad and flow and return just under boiler

Guess what , they got a difference of 8c on flow and return with everything on full blast , boiler readout read 6 degree difference which was as i expected as there sensors are after bypass , so thats good to know if you have a valiant boiler after 1.5 hours in this mild weather we could not get flat above 16c thats with every window and vent shut or taped off , so now they have conclusive proof it DONT work

I supplied verbally my calculation , my heat loss calculations , the approx U vales of my construction inc U of pre 2002 windows ect un-insulated floor , quoted what Valiant had told me , the energy trust , and building research establiment , starts calcls , whole house calcs ect , and best bit fitter had stated on paperwork on day of install flow 75 return 74

They have now gone away to check there calcs

so far on my side is flats cold , TRV wide open , boiler at 75c , flow and return min they could get was 76 flow 70 return as read on boiler , at pipes just under boiler was 76/68 , and iv now conducted me own survey of 4 other flats which support my claims

again must thank D-hailsham for his advise , links which allowed me to get so much more information and to this site , iv read a lot of ya post and got information from them all

PS anyone need a heating designer LOL

Thanks Tezz

 

[Tezzuk1]

At last bigger rads being fitted in next week

They still maintain there MEAR calcs were correct !!!!! , i dont see how but ive argued that point long enought now, but they have agreed to fit bigger rads , and from sizes they have given me of rads they putting in almost match my calcs so im now a happy bunny


Thanks all

Tezz