Help and advice on toilet waste pipe location. Pics included

[Kristoff28]

It's far better if the wastes connect into the top section of the soil branch rather than the sides. I would take the basin waste straight down behind the pedestal and directly into the soil pipe with a single solvent weld boss like Multiquick Easy Boss. Do the same with the bath waste in a convenient location.

Facilitating easy installation, Easy Boss requires no straps avoiding the need for all-round access to the soil pipe. It can simply be fitted into a 57mm hole and is ready to receive a 1¼ or 1½ inch push fit pipe. For 40mm solvent weld requirements the seal is simply removed and the pipe glued in place, and for 32mm versions an adaptor is supplied as standard.

http://www.multikwik.com/products.php?keywords=easy boss

Ahh cheers pal your a star

Something like this then ??

Would this system not cause a terrible smell to come through the plug
holes with it being linked directly to the soil stack ????
City Plumbing down the road have them in stock so will go grab 2.

While im at it should i replace all the bath & sink waste pipes (They stink) or should i flush them out clean the best i can ???

It looks like all the joints are solvent welded, is this better than push fit system ???

Is there anything else, looking at the pictures you think i will need ???

cheers

Kris

 

[seco services]

thought you had a joist running where the soil pipe is going ?

 

[Kristoff28]

thought you had a joist running where the soil pipe is going ?

Yep joists and soil pipe are running parallel together but i have a
600mm centre gap to play with

 

[seco services]

ok some reason i thought it was the other way.

 

[Kristoff28]

You'll almost certainly draw the traps every time you flush the loo unless you allow air to get in there somewhere; you need to look at either the BR's or manufacturers design guides or both.

Had my hopes built up there.

How do you mean draw the traps ??? Sorry mate im a roofer, all this
plumbing thing is new to me but quick at learning

Whats the BR's ???

Manufactures design guides for the taps or the easy boss's ???

cheers

Chris

 

[seco services]

if you have 600mm wide and 300mm hieght why don't you keep the basin,bath seperate from wc ?

 

[Richard C]

How do you mean draw the traps ??? Sorry mate im a roofer, all this
plumbing thing is new to me but quick at learning

I know plumbers do it but this isnt really plumbing. The column of water rushing down the horizontal soil pipe every time you flush the loo will draw the air with it. Unless you allow air to enter the pipe somewhere, either before the sink/basin traps or at the w/c itself, it will suck the air from the bath/sink waste pipes & draw the water from the traps leading to smells; that’s why you need either an open stack or an AAV the allow air to be sucked in & why each waste run usually has it's own separate connection to the stack or at least separate from the w/c. You do have an open vented vertical stack on the outside but this will only allow air in once the column of water has entered the vertical stack too late for the bath/sink traps!

Whats the BR's ???

I already posted you a link in my previous response; the work your doing has to comply with these Regs. I suggest you read it before doing any more.

Manufactures design guides for the taps or the easy boss's ???

These give manufacturers guidance on the design/layout of waste/foul systems using their specific products; here’s one but there are others;

http://www.hunterplastics.co.uk/pdf/soilandwaste/swt_brochure.pdf

it also covers BR requirements &, again, I suggest you read it before doing any more.

 

[blondini]

I have a similar arrangement in my bathroom and it doesn't pull the traps.
I also had something similar in a previous house and it didn't pull the traps.

Bear in mind that there are pan connectors available that have an integral waste boss, the slug of 'water' from flushing the lav doesn't fill the connector or branch to the top and cause a vacuum. As long as you connect into the upper portion of the soil branch, and not the side it should be fine.

 

[Richard C]

Or An Idiot?

I doubt your an idiot

I have a similar arrangement in my bathroom and it doesn't pull the traps.
I also had something similar in a previous house and it didn't pull the traps.

As long as you connect into the upper portion of the soil branch, and not the side it should be fine.

You may be right or you may have just been lucky but the risk is there & BR’s require a minimum 25mm water seal under ALL working/test conditions. Installations have to comply with the B regs. & to achieve this, it’s always best to follow good installation practice & the manufacturer’s design guidelines for their specific product range; I suspect they are probably the experts or they wouldn’t bother publishing one! As the bathroom is a refurb, I assume a BI will not be involved but I doubt if a new installation such as that would be passed on inspection unless it included anti-siphon provision.

Bear in mind that there are pan connectors available that have an integral waste boss, the slug of 'water' from flushing the lav doesn't fill the connector or branch to the top and cause a vacuum.

Not sure what you mean by "doesn't fill the connector or branch to the top” but it will cause a vacuum & I think would still need an anti-siphon unit to maintain the trap seal but I’ve never used one.

 

[Kristoff28]

Ok chaps many thanks for the replys.

Ive been through the BR's and some of it i understand and some of it i
dont

I think i might have to admit defeat and pass this job onto a plumber as
much as its gonna break my heart in not being able to finish a job off

I opened up the floor to have a look and apart from a few electric cables,
passing the soil stack under floor shouldnt be a problem.

Its just all this ventilation business is puddling my head.

Any plumbers on here that can tell me that i need X Y Z and you need to
do this, this and this to get the job done.

If i was to have the bath and whb waste pipes into the soil stack could i
use these to get over my problem OR should i do them seperate and
plumb them into the branch on the outside wall ???

Sink Anti-Vac bottle trap
http://www.tradingdepot.co.uk/DEF/p...es/Wastes and Traps/Anti-Vac Bottle Trap 32mm

Bath Anti-Vac bottle trap
http://www.tradingdepot.co.uk/DEF/p...es/Wastes and Traps/Anti-Vac Bottle Trap 40mm

cheeRS

Kris

 

[seco services]

in that amount of room under floor i would keep them seperate.
your gonna have to keep your soil pipe nice and tight to the outer joist to line up with your pan exit.

 

[kirkgas]

i would use seperate boss connections for each, some simple measuring to place them in the centre and drop the pipe right into the top, as per your drawing you will struggle to get the whb pipe in as the soil will be close to the wall, use anti syphon traps as well

 

[Kristoff28]

Cheers for reply pal.

Yeah i looked and have just checked it now. There is JUST enough room
to keep everything in line and to match up with the original position.

So in your eyes im best doing the bath/whb seperate and get them into
branch on the outside ?????????

cheers

Kris

 

[Richard C]

Yeah i looked and have just checked it now. There is JUST enough room
to keep everything in line and to match up with the original position.

So in your eyes im best doing the bath/whb seperate and get them into
branch on the outside ?????????

cheers Kris

That’s what I’d do even if you have to drop the top of the stack slightly on the outside. Don’t give up, it aint rocket science & it’s easily possible for you to DIY it; you just have to understand a little more about how it all works & the reasoning behind the BR’s. They aren’t there just to make your life difficult, although I do sometimes wonder!

 

[blondini]

Something like this then ??

Would this system not cause a terrible smell to come through the plug
holes with it being linked directly to the soil stack ????

Something exactly like that. Simple and neat, no boxing, no exposed pipes, only one new hole through the wall, the traps should stop smells coming back, but would it work properly?

It works for me, and I've remembered another example that has a long soil branch with two wastes bossed into it from above. The traps don't pulll. The traps in all my examples are simple ordinary versions and they don't pull. I've even put a float in the basin waste to see if the level drops when I flush the loo, and it doesn't even flicker.

I can't find anything in BR that explicitly says you can or can't do this, but it does say

(1.18 Document H) Branch pipes up to 40mm diameter joining branch pipes 100mm diameter or greater should, if practicable, connect to the upper part of the pipe wall of the larger branch.

Which implies that you can...