Only problem with that is once I do that it could be a few days afterwards before being able to get stuff bought that I would need. Sounds like you're fairly certain I need that saddle though.
Help! Roof valley leaking
- Thread starter mike42
- Start date
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Well with the greatest of respect it is you (as a pro I presume) that has come on to a DIY site and basically ended up ridiculing a DIYer who is trying to fix his roof.
You are simply withholding advice and waiting for me to f it up so you can have a laugh. You tell me it will leak but don't say why. You won't tell me why the lead saddle at the bottom is needed. You won't tell me whether I can fit a different grp length under the existing. You first "helpful" post talked about "picking up the underlay" - what does that mean to a novice? You then said "..get a roofer.." so what is the purpose of DIY ?
I understand some things are complicated and its difficult to explain over a forum like this and I fully understand there are a lot of folk on this forum who give their time for free which has to be much appreciated, but when its just making the odd point here or there and leaving the DIYer struggling or raising more questions than it answers I don't know how much that helps.
I am of course grateful to datarebal and will be using his drawing as an aid but still not sure about some points. 8-(
With all due respect for those who have posted relative to this problem over the last 10 weeks (or so), it is somewhat unclear to me where the water is supposed to go after it leaves the valley that was pictured in the first post. (A wider picture showing the next 500 mm below the lower section pictured may help.)
It seems that what may be required may be something like this. (Why it came out sideways I do not know.) At least there is one thing that I have learned from reading this post,l the meaning of "GRP valley troughs"
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OP, get out of here.
your still sayin whats what, proposin your notions, instead of listening to very simple advice given by me an another - strip it an it will be obvious what to do next.
youve wasted weeks with maybe a hole in your roof an no further ahead.
your still sayin whats what, proposin your notions, instead of listening to very simple advice given by me an another - strip it an it will be obvious what to do next.
youve wasted weeks with maybe a hole in your roof an no further ahead.
same idea , but this is not preformed grp valley trough. lead arrangement is what you need but just extend your grp to hang in the gutter , the lead will take care of the the side.
The pictured isn't without its invulnerability as it appears on edge of the lead has not been turned up enough in my opinion.
So firstly the reason nothing has been done for 10 weeks (actually a lot longer than that) is because with the sofit removed, there is no leak internally and until recently this was a bit of the house that wasn't used much.
I opened up the bottom quite a bit today and have got some better pics. I think I now get why I need the saddle - without it it would be pretty hard to trip a new piece of grp to drain into the gutter. It sort of begs the question whether I need to extend the grp if I can get a big piece of lead under the lot? If I do, I don't know which grp to get?
Anyway, next set of pics:
End of the valley is visible here (top left):
Here is a view of it from underneath with the soffit removed.
This one is from above. You can see the end of the gutter on the left and the facia on the right where there is normally also a gutter.
Finally here is another view with a tape measure.
Quite a bit of trouble getting those and I hope I don't annoy anyone again.
The third of the recent photos posted indicates that, if you obtain a length of GRP Valley Trough of an appropriate profile, remove the existing badly cut end piece of Valley Trough and install the new piece under the main existing Valley Trough , this new Valley Trough will (just) “miss” the upper guttering on the left and project into or past the lower guttering – which is not currently in place.
This may be all that is necessary but, without some additional lead sheeting to act as what I might call an “apron” , the water may overshoot on the right and there may be insufficient covering to prevent some leakage, in line with the upper guttering, on the left.
Also, having the stiff valley protect into the guttering is not good practice, as it makes the guttering difficult to clean. Hence the possible need to cut the valley above the guttering and use a lead "apron" underneath it to direct the water.
(As you can tell, I am not familiar with the appropriate plumbing terms.)
(If you don't know the profile required, could you not remove that end piece of existing Valley, install a sheet of heavy plastic as a temporary "valley", down to the guttering and take that end piece to a suppler to determine what profile you required?)
Apart from the end of the existing valley being cut “short” on the left, a part of the problem with the original installation was that there was an attempt to make the water turn at an angle of about 45 degrees. Under these circumstances, the rapidly flowing water will tend to overshoot, unless there is a high enough “lip” installed to stop it.
I suggest that you also check the under roof timbers to see if they need treatment for rot as a result of the leaks.
This may be all that is necessary but, without some additional lead sheeting to act as what I might call an “apron” , the water may overshoot on the right and there may be insufficient covering to prevent some leakage, in line with the upper guttering, on the left.
Also, having the stiff valley protect into the guttering is not good practice, as it makes the guttering difficult to clean. Hence the possible need to cut the valley above the guttering and use a lead "apron" underneath it to direct the water.
(As you can tell, I am not familiar with the appropriate plumbing terms.)
(If you don't know the profile required, could you not remove that end piece of existing Valley, install a sheet of heavy plastic as a temporary "valley", down to the guttering and take that end piece to a suppler to determine what profile you required?)
Apart from the end of the existing valley being cut “short” on the left, a part of the problem with the original installation was that there was an attempt to make the water turn at an angle of about 45 degrees. Under these circumstances, the rapidly flowing water will tend to overshoot, unless there is a high enough “lip” installed to stop it.
I suggest that you also check the under roof timbers to see if they need treatment for rot as a result of the leaks.
That is as clear as day and thanks so much for it. I shall follow it as carefully as I can starting with getting a new grp from somewhere. I've found one that looks similar and has the same profile (well looks very similar) and is the same width. My local merchants only seem to stock certain brands none of which produce anything close. (Same for TPs and Jewsons etc)
https://www.roofingsuperstore.co.uk...a3b7aajsfI-7o7-eWz4MytSFdJz7ZA1AaApGdEALw_wcB
I'm hoping to find a local stockist of this because delivery makes it uneconomical.
Anyway, I'll fit that as you suggest and then first time it rains will monitor and potentially size up and order/install new lead sheet.
Not sure I'm brave enough to post up the results though !
P.S. Thanks to everyone that has helped me and apologies for not getting properly opened up pictures early on.
So I've at long last started work on it. I think I now undertstand why that lead saddle at the bottom is needed. I have a new grp valley and have replaced the existing bottom section. However, when I do that the bottom tile doesn't fit over it. I'm still not 100% sure why it doesn't fit but it definitely pushes the bottom tile up too much. It might be because I haven't notched the facia on the left yet - you can see I'm lightning quick.
In @datarebal diagram earlier in the thread he shows that final tile almost butting (definitely not overlapping the grp) and the grp itself cut well short of the gutter. I presume the reason for that is that he knows the tile wouldn't fit over the top otherwise. So since the grp is short of the gutter a large apron is needed (and to keep the hard plastic out of the gutter as previously mentioned) - I'm gonna try and get one quickly now I know what sort of size I need.
With many dry days forecast, I plan to have a further "play" around tomorrow.
Do you mean like this so it runs parallel to the lower gutter? (sorry the old off piece of grp is resting on top in this pic - I put it there so I could see how far down it went).
As far as I can see (well without the notch taken out yet) it doesn't look like the tile will fit over the valley without crushing it.
As far as I can see (well without the notch taken out yet) it doesn't look like the tile will fit over the valley without crushing it.
Roll of code 4 ordered.
If I remember correctly, I did at one point have that first tile on the right (shown in second pic above) going under the valley. BUT I think the tile above that one would then also hit the valley.
Should I cut the valley more like in your (kindly drawn) first pic which means it is cut much further up or is there some way to do it with the valley cut almost flush with the first row of tiles as shown?
Edit: Maybe the valley rest on top of both tiles (with the lead going inbetween) ?
If I remember correctly, I did at one point have that first tile on the right (shown in second pic above) going under the valley. BUT I think the tile above that one would then also hit the valley.
Should I cut the valley more like in your (kindly drawn) first pic which means it is cut much further up or is there some way to do it with the valley cut almost flush with the first row of tiles as shown?
Edit: Maybe the valley rest on top of both tiles (with the lead going inbetween) ?
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