HETAS Engineers a bunch of lying so and so's....

[Norcon]

Complying with building regulations is not a legal requirement.
If it was then half the country would be in jail.

Its a paper exercise for the insurers and that's about it and generates easy money for the hetas, bc and h&s suits who disgracefully and convenianetly use a few deaths as leverage for their cash generating cause.
If an engineer refuses to check a system for safety after being asked to do so and someone later dies then its 100% the engineers fault.

When the homeowner has you up in court for negligence citing "things you cannot see" will be no excuse for your incompetence.
Charging extoroniate fees just promotes diy sf installations.

 

[Kh0909]

I just wanted to point out that whilst complaining about prices you seem to have forgotten the cost of becoming HETAS registered- about £1000 not to mention the yearly registration costs and cost per certificate!
I can't speak for the engineers you spoke to and it certainly seems you had some bad ones but the cost you are quoted is the cost for the job, should the engineer charge 200 then find it takes 2 days due to unforeseen difficulties-which can happen- the customer would not be happy being charged extra.
Then there is also the tool costs and maintainence/replacement, including ladders. I don't know many people that would be happy climbing on their roof with a heavy flue, and feeding the flue downwards is the correct practice!
Lastly you have insurance costs, advertising, van running and maintainence. The cost for all this needs to be included somewhere.
It sounds like your job was fairly straight forward and there is no reason why the engineers shouldn't have fitted customer bought parts provided they were suitable and not Chinese copies as is often found online.
Can I suggest next time reporting these engineers to HETAS and looking at reviews on google.

 

[Jerry779]

I found all three installers on this site: http://www.hetas.co.uk/find-installer/

One reasonably priced installer and two very expensive installers!!

I own a established solid fuel business and employed a so called Hetas engineer first job I sent him on he had no idea what he was doing.

How do I get around 2 bends in a chimney
How do I Shat size hearth do I need for an inset stove
How do you seal vitrus 45 degree bend to flexible liner
Can you join a 6inch liner to a 5inch liner to get past a bend

*the kast question scared me)

Great job 'Hetas' another highly trained professional with his 3 day extensive training course..Is HETAS necessary for firms which can offer testimonials received from satisfied customers for over 20yrs

 

[njies01]

I have had 6 quotes from Hetas registered wood burner stove installers for a Hunter Hearld 8 double sided wood burner (already bought the stove). It’s is just mind blowing how greedy and wicked these people are – Here is a breakdown of the quote;
• 5 meters 904 6 inches liner = £650 (you can buy this from reputable flue supplies company for just £177 including VAT)
• Chimney Pot Cowl = £120 ( you can buy this as part of Kit which includes 6by6 inches converter to liner)
• Soffit Plate = £90 ( again can buy for £34)
• Co2 Alarm = £25 (roughly the same price)
• Air Vent = £55 (can pay a builder £30 to stick a vent for me but £55 seem a fair price)
• Hetas Regs = £15 (again is reasonable)
• 6by6 inches converter to liner = £45 (remember this comes as part of the Kit above)
• General Metrials = £28 (no idea what this is but again reasonable)
• Labour = £300 (again reasonable I am prepared to pay £400)
Note that my fireplace already has a half for the stove to sit on. The chimney on the bungalow is in very good state and there is already an old 5 inches liner for an old gas fire that need to be pulled out and a new 904 6inches liner put in.
I am not an expert but from talking to these people and based on my opinion this is just 3/4 hours of work involved. I completely understand paying a Hetas registered person upto £400 to install the stove. I appreciate tradesmen making a bit on the material and can’t and wouldn’t deny them this but how can they expect to make just under £500 on a liner and charging for things separately when they already come in a Kit at fraction cost of what they are charging combined?
I appreciate the safety aspect and making sure that we only use gas/electric/stove tradesmen who are registered and certified. I recently used a gas safe person to install a new boiler in the bungalow where all the plumbing pipe work has been done and no old boiler to remove. I paid this person £300 and it was two of them – they spent half a day to install the boiler.
Why are Hetas Installers any different?

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

I had a stove fitted by a local shop. £1,800 to supply and fit Charnwood C-Four stove, liner, granite inner hearth and outer hearth, and repair plaster around the builder's opening. It was a good job and a reasonable price. They said normal plaster round the edge of the opening was fine, very rarely you get fine cracks. I visited the shop many times, chatted to the staff who were skilled trades, and got a good impression.

But the quotes varied so much, I could have paid over 50% more.A local shop visited. Talked down to me in a very patronising manner. Gave a silly quote. Told me I needed fireboard on the wall around the opening ( not inside). He rang a plasterer, invited him round, and he quoted £250. Recently I saw the plasterer in the local brewery shop. He said the shop does a lot of work for rich people, who think nothing of spending far more than me on a stove. So I was small fry.

I reckon stoves are trendy, wealthy people buy them, often have more than one, and they can pay. Shop around, find a shop that can supply and do all the work in house, to keep costs down. Many shops sub-contract work out, so each party gets a cut.

 

[smokeyjoey]

3 shops local to me have offered me as a hetas installer £300 a day ,every day until end of february minimum

 

[rnorman345]

NAPIT, NICEIC, APHE

To be honest to include/suggest these is a bit ingenuous. Theye do not 'compete' with HETAS

 

[Midas Man]

OP should clearly set up his own business as he's needed in this 'rip off' market.

 

[FiremanT]

Just wanderered into this. I remember this thread starting and my first "unread" post was in 2012.
I can't beleive it is still going on
I am not going to waste any time reading it, but is it still the same s#ite?

 

[dilalio]

@FiremanT, I started reading this thread this morning whilst looking for something else... Jeez, I gave up with about 80 posts still to go, on the basis that I reckoned I'd end up needing therapy

Even though the op did argue his case well "at some points" (this deteriorated as the thread progressed),

Three things struck me...

1. Free market economy
2. OP looking for a scapegoat
3. Would OP perform surgery on himself and/or family

What a waste of energy (& server space)!

 

[noseall]

I think the thread serves well in the sense that it highlights the fact that even very poor 'tradesmen' can use the label engineer. Engineer - my arse!

The thread also provides good information to anyone in a dead end job and thinking of a career change. Spend a few hours on you-tube, buy a van, some dust sheets and a modest amount of tools and become a HETAS engineer and charge the earth. No trade experience (apparently) necessary. Easy money.

It used to be double glazed selling or damp specialist or taxi driver. Now it's HETAS engineer. Hilarious.

 

[Nige F]

You are spot on Nose. Came across a hetas bod on one of my country jobs, fitted an old Rayburn out of one farmhouse to another old boy/neighbour down the road. Neighbour of my builder M8- farmhouse was his grandfathers. So there we are in our builders kit and this shiny van pulls up and the hetasser ponces around in a suit looking @ the job. Finishes with a rough bit of making good and the all important bit of paper. I'm just glad I didn't have to be there when they were working.

 

[Brimstone]

There's a lot of hot air being spouted here and a complete refusal to accept facts. Stoves and fires are potentially much more dangerous than other forms of heating, and produces many more times CO than a gas fire. I've had the full incident investigation happen recently, 5 police officers, social services, Fire Brigade, HETAS inspectors, manufacturers technical reps, the lot. We sweated blood for a few weeks, didn't know if we'd hurt a mother and baby, insurance issues are irrelevant its about sleeping at night. Turns out our install was 100% ok, ... then the following week we went to the funeral of our friend, a builder who dies in his bed next to his wife, of CO poisoning.
Yes, the original OP was being ripped off, he either didn't do enough homework to find reputable people, or, quite possibly, they all decided he was a knob and that they didn't want the work at any price. There are lots of quality knowledgable HETAS engineers out there willing to fit thirdparty supplied kit if it is legal and the right stuff for the job. It is actually a lot more complicated than it might first appear, but, can look really easy it is goes well on the day. It it doesn't then we don't charge extra, but can put in several days of extra effort just to make sure the client is happy. - Had several like that, even when the problem was the suppliers not my own. The rates are high, but then so are the costs and risks, and you do'nt get work every day.
Some of the stove shops are a complete rip off and so arrogant it takes my breath away, but it is a free market and mugs apparently abound. The material market is also very open and the devil is in the detail, one mans 904 is wafer thin inside and 316 or less on the outside, whereas another is so over the top n quality it prices itself ut of the DIY market.

it's easy to sit at the keyboard and bitch, but a waste of time and server space. How about closing this thread down?

 

[noseall]

How about closing this thread down?

Diddums.
I say leave it open so we can have another dozen pages highlighting the bull s hit title that is HEATAS engineer. 12 pages and hardly a good word. Says it all. Lovin' the use of server space.

 

[Deek47]

(snipped) How about closing this thread down?

Have something against free speech? Don't like it - don't read it . . . you have that choice.

noseall has a good point. And once personal insults begin, then you know the 'insulter' has lost the argument. So predictable.

As regards to qualified "engineers", we lived in a house (built 1940's) in which the gas meter was due for replacement. Official gas-men called and did said installation. Smelt of gas once they'd gone, but considered that as they'd just pulled pipes off and re-fitted, it would go after a day or so. It didn't.

Called them back, and this time a supervisor oversaw the operation. Seems they had installed a washer the wrong way round, "All fine now Sir!" Says the supervisor. A week later they were back to do the job again due to a leak from the same joint, in the same meter.

In comparison, and not blowing my own brass orifice (I just like doing things properly), I fitted some gas lighting to our boat (we lived aboard), and got praise for the finish and fittings from a qualified marine surveyor. That was over thirty years ago. Today, I would not be allowed to do such an installation as there would be no paperwork from a qualified gas installer to validate any insurance cover needed for same. Who would I trust to do such work? No-one. But I would have to pay the piper - and then go round checking everything myself.

We live now in a rented house built 1950's, an ex-farm workers 'cottage' in rural Shropshire. There's a solid fuel Rayburn in the kitchen, and an open standard 16" fireplace in the sitting room. We like old stoves, and brought our old faithful - a French De-Ville of 1930's vintage - and popped it into the sitting room with a plate set into the aperture and the gasses going straight up the chimney behind same. I heaved it out twice a year for a DIY chimney sweep (shock horror!) and it had worked and performed perfectly for a couple of years burning fuel more efficiently, and reducing draughts induce by the open hearth. How on Earth did we get away with it - and still alive with no chimney fires?

Then the Landlord phoned one day to see if we still had the open fire, or did we have a certification of installation for the Frenchy, as they were being harassed by their insurers for compliance certificates on all their properties. It might be a problem for them without certification. So out came the Frenchy, and now it resides under the stairs, a hidden ornament, victim of bureaucracy. In place we have more fuel being burnt for a given heat output, and more draughts. I did get a quote from a registered heating engineer for a flue liner (there never has been one), and without stove this would be in the region of £800 - easy roof access and a straight fall, included reg. plate cap and cowl. Then we saw some inset stoves at reasonable prices on the 'net below 5KW output and not needing a liner. I was tempted.

Then I stumbled on this thread, read all twelve pages from start until now, and guess what? I'm spending my money on something else, and all the certified 'Johnnies' can go without my custom. If I can't do it myself - you ain't gonna do it either.