HETAS Engineers a bunch of lying so and so's....

[Goldspoon]

There are other competent person schemes for solid fuel, Hetas is just one of five or six. Others include NAPIT, NICEIC, APHE.

As to your point about Hetas not getting away with robbery: Hetas do not set prices, they are just a regulatory body.

Any builder, plumber, tradesman can fit a stove if they notify Building Control and many do.


You seem to be angry about two issues:

1. You believed you were lied to by Hetas engineers.

Hetas engineers do not only have to adhere to building regs they also have to adhere to Hetas standards which are often stricter. Hetas tend towards the highest standards whether that be the regs or British Standard, European Standard, manufacturer's preferred standard etc. Building regs do not say a liner is required if a flue passes Smoke Test 1 (sealed smoke test). That's it. However, if a flue is large/cold/very uneven internal surface then the draw may not be good and the installation may fail the stove manufacturer's requirements for draw. In this case the Hetas engineer may face action by Hetas should the customer raise a complaint. I believe that Building regs also state that smoke should be carried away satisfactorily so one might fall foul of Building Regs.

So... many Hetas engineers choose a liner even though Building Regs do not insist.

Of course some will use this as an excuse to always fit a liner and make the money from the fitting.

Hetas suggest a liner be fitted if the chimney is 9" diameter or more (or 9"x9" if square). Hetas recommend a liner if the chimney is brick or stone and not lined with any other product.

2. Capitalism

Supply and demand causes prices to rise and fall. In our society any person can charge what they like. You can disagree with this but I suggest you really require a politics forum.

Over recent years sales of solid fuel appliances has risen but the number of people prepared to install has not caught up (to install a stove one requires a variety of skills: builder for fireplaces, hearths and chimney pots/plumber to deal with old back-boilers/tiler for hearths/stove fitter of course and be happy on ladders/cat ladders). Hence the supply and demand issue. It's more of an issue in the lead up to Christmas with too many people leaving stove installs to the last minute.

 

[Alarm]

Good post, but a waste you`ll still be told he was " going to be ripped off".

 

[expertgasman]

OP: You do not understnd the concept of "business". While I agree that HETAS fitters charge more than most other trades, your idea of a fair return is absurd.

You, in an earlier post srated that you managed to feed the liner uo the the chimney, and only had to climb the roof to trim the liner. Most guys wouldn't push up, as it isn't always a sucessful method, but yours was obviously straightforward. BUT you then went on later to mention the fact
that you filled the annular space with vermiculite. Did you push that up as well, or were you being economical with the truth earlier?

Most manufacturers DO NOT sell direct to fitters or end user. Everything has to be bought from distributors, be they on line or otherwise. You suggest that we buy in bulk - maybe some do - but who pays for the initial outlay and the space to store the product? We, as a retailer, DO buy in quantity, but the average fitter is working fromn their homes, and space is at a premium.

The differing advice notwithstanding, I think your primary aim of this long and tedious thread is to demonstrate how clever you are, but you have demonstrated that yoor job went throgh easily. Until you FINISH the work, you never know what lies ahead, and customers always want a FIXED price, so as a trade we have to allow a margin for the unforseen.

As far as i am cocerned, I would quote the same for a 6 hour job as an 8 hour job. IF the job goes well, and is finished at say, 3 pm, what do you expect us to do with the last 2 hours? We casn't PLAN further work, as if the main job over runs, we have a probllematicalo situation, and an an upset client.

You are measuring your time from start to finish, but we have to spend time quoting, writing quotes, ordering materials, loading van, sometimes fuelling up, travelling TO your address, load waste and travel dispose. THEN we might travel home . OR spend more time quoting for someone who only wants to pick brains.

And I won't even start on the questiion of overheads, buying safety gear and not having paid bank hols, annual hols or sick pay.

 

[mbga9pgf]

The Lica fill was completed by shaking the flue once the register plate was in place and pouring down either side of the flue from the top, once it had been attached to the pot hanger? took a while, but hardly rocket science?

All of this didnt seem to affect the electrical, gas and plumbing work I have had done. What makes HETAS so special? Other sites such as moneysavingexpert have NUMEROUS examples of overpriced work, work that quite frankly doesnt take much skill to complete.

Keep convincing yourselves you are "worth it" and customers will continue to find other means of installing their flexible flue liners. I shant be having any sympathy from HETAS engineers when I hear them whingeing about the lack of trade during the credit crunch.

 

[gasbanni]

£600 for a days work for two men is perfectly reasonable, with all the overheads not a bad price at all.

Can't quite grasp why your so bitter about it, you did it yourself in the end even its an illegal install ! But as the council don't know about it keep your fingers crossed the neigbours dont complain !

By the way, from your description of what youve done its wrong you should have got a HETAS installer to do it

 

[mbga9pgf]

£600 for a days work for two men is perfectly reasonable, with all the overheads not a bad price at all.

Can't quite grasp why your so bitter about it, you did it yourself in the end even its an illegal install ! But as the council don't know about it keep your fingers crossed the neigbours dont complain !

By the way, from your description of what youve done its wrong you should have got a HETAS installer to do it

Go ahead smart @rse, as far as I have read, it meets all the current regs as published.

2 peoples work? I managed it solo! As for the neighbours complaining, not much chance of that! I wouldnt pay 600 a day for a lawyer or an accountant, never mind someone to thread a stainless steel tube up a flue and fasten a few jubilee clips.

 

[Alarm]

ROFL, if and from what others are saying is correct you will need a £600 a day lawyer.

 

[mbga9pgf]

ROFL, if and from what others are saying is correct you will need a £600 a day lawyer.

Want to show me links to news articles for prosecutions where installations were compliant? Thought not!

Typical protectionist trade, wanting 600 a day and in this case, not getting a penny! Enjoy christmas, its going to be Lidl turkey this year instead of Marks and Spencer goose!

 

[Alarm]

How quaint, you ask a question and then tell me I cannot answer it.

Then you assume I`m a heating engineer ( my moniker should give you a clue), and then you tell me what I am having for Christmas dinner.

Your a funny little man.

 

[mbga9pgf]

How quaint, you ask a question and then tell me I cannot answer it.

Then you assume I`m a heating engineer ( my moniker should give you a clue), and then you tell me what I am having for Christmas dinner.

Your a funny little man.

Ok, show me the links to prosecutions where installations were compliant please.

 

[Alarm]

I`m not a heating engineer, I have no idea if what you say you have done is compliant or not.
Therefore I am not in a position to comment on your handwork.
I would assume being of a logical disposition that a compliant installation would not attract the attention of a court of law.

My only interest in this and a similar is the way you are gloating and making out trades are solely out to rip off customers.

Without going back to the start did you get 3 quotes?
How did they all compare?

That and that alone as stated is my only interest in this.

 

[expertgasman]

My last post on this thread;

Conflicting advice apart, - you were given a quote, you declined it and DIY. WTF have we spent 3 pages discussing anything as you are clearly only interested in bigging yourself up. The fact that none of the quote providers reduced thier prices suggest they are getting enough work, and beleive me, with the volume of WB stoves being sold, they probably are.

Our HETAS guy is stacked.

I am looking forward to a couple of years when the WB fad dies away. Most clients I talk to are buying WB for completely wrong reasons, and in inappropiate locations.

I bet everyone in the Op's local pub look forward to hearing him spout forth about himself.

 

[mbga9pgf]

I`m not a heating engineer, I have no idea if what you say you have done is compliant or not.
Therefore I am not in a position to comment on your handwork.
I would assume being of a logical disposition that a compliant installation would not attract the attention of a court of law.

My only interest in this and a similar is the way you are gloating and making out trades are solely out to rip off customers.

Without going back to the start did you get 3 quotes?
How did they all compare?

That and that alone as stated is my only interest in this.

Of the work I originally wanted, replacement of a register plate in a brick flue which had been checked for leaks by a registered sweep, the 4 installers contacted, one said they would get back, the other three claimed "it was against the regs" (it isnt), and would only replace the register plate if they could line the flue.

Once I procured my own flue, 2 flatly refused to install it, (cant guarantee quality, despite me having a reciept methinks due to inability to massively mark up materials) one quoting 600 labour, the other, saying they would get back in touch (and never did).

Hardly professional.

I bet everyone in the Op's local pub look forward to hearing him spout forth about himself.

It was actually more about warning competent DIYers of the hazards of rediculous quotes in a monopolied local industry, and to dispute some of the myths regarding prosecution for completing work that is supposedly notifiable, yet not a single competent DIYer has yet to be prosecuted for non notification of compliant work. I particularly cant stand the "black magic, only we can do this" attitude that purveys around what was in my case effect, a very easy job.

 

[Alarm]

TBH you wont change your tune.
I would not fit your equipment as you would come running to me when you broke it.

End of my contribution here.

 

[Corgigrouch]

Well then Mr mbga9pgf... Since you are so good at it, perhaps you have a future in earning a good living fitting stoves and flues for folk... You may be capable, but you cannot yet be judged as competent so don't forget to register and insure yourself...