Hey Dex, new teaching initiative.

[LastMagicBean]

I can't see the problem here.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...APING-10-year-olds-mouths-giggling-class.html

Discipline, that's what's needed. Tie the bloody parents to a post while we're at it.

A typical, overprotective, drama queen, nobcake parent said this:

"I didn’t trust myself to speak to the teacher myself, as I feared I might slap her."

Marvelous.

 

[Dextraneous]

She should have used superglue.

Mind you, in my experience, art teachers and their ilk are usually so far up themselves that they don't give a flying diddly about anyone else - child nor adult.

 

[LastMagicBean]

Do you know what...

I bet the kids didn't even bat an eyelid. It's when the b*stard parents get involved, that's when it all goes t*ts up.

In the last few days a huge deal has been made of a certain school that made pupils wear a simple sign around their necks when out of the classroom for a toilet visit.

Again, an excellent idea. I don't see the problem.

The worlds gone mad.

 

[JBR]

I don't know what these namby pamby parents are going to do when they bring back caning.

I once shouted at a disruptive pupil - yes, just shouted - and the parent complained about me. God, am I glad I've retired now. Anyone going into teaching these days - apart from some private schools, of course - wants their head examining.

 

[LastMagicBean]

Anyone going into teaching these days - apart from some private schools, of course - wants their head examining.

The trouble is JBR, the kind of student teacher that takes on this increasingly pointless profession are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

The churning out of sh*t badly behaved kids is a direct result of sh*t parents and their attitudes to discipline. Because they had none.
And so each generation will continue to pass it down.

So I agree, these days it's a no win situation. No point bothering.

Bring back corporal punishment, parents included.

 

[JBR]

Certainly something radical needs to be done to solve the problem of present day society.

At the risk of bleating on about my teaching experiences, I found that the vast majority of grandparents were very supportive and respectful - unlike many of the parents. I think that says a great deal about how society in this country has changed over a couple of generations.

The worrying thing is that it will almost certainly take at least as long again to put things right, and that's assuming that firm steps are taken to do so now. Unfortunately, I'm afraid our present collection of politicians do not have the balls to do anything.

 

[Whitespirit66]

If there's no discipline, then it's likely that there isn't much learning going on. The only teachers who managed to get their subjects across to pupils when I was at school, were the disciplinarians. You respected them, by slightly fearing them. The wishy-washy, younger teachers who thought that being friends with their pupils was the way to go, got nowhere.

If things are more child-centered these days and discipline weak, how does anyone concentrate and grasp a subject?

 

[Dextraneous]

You respected them, by slightly fearing them. ?

And that, my friend, is the key to the cabinet!!

Let's not overplay the "fear" bit though - providing kids know who the boss is and that the boss can make life unpleasant if needs be, then that is sufficient.

It's the concept of "respect" that's the issue. It's a cliche to say that some kids "don't have any respect for themselves and so can't have any respect for anyone else", but it's still a valid point. Respect (IMHO) implies a recognition of effort having taken place. It comes as no surprise that the majority of the worst miscreants tend to be either spoilt little brats with wealthy parents or from socially deprived "hand-out" backgrounds.

 

[Whitespirit66]

You respected them, by slightly fearing them. ?

And that, my friend, is the key to the cabinet!!

Let's not overplay the "fear" bit though -

Yes, know what you mean about not overplaying. The fear could just be the knowledge that some of the teachers who were in control would make you look small or humiliated in front of your peers.

The ultimate sanction was always the cane. The ones who used it to good effect rarely had to use it. The ones who tapped you on the palms with it whilst saying that it was going to hurt them as much as you, were wasting their time. They may have been decent people, but kids are ruthless and will exploit any weaknesses.

As kids, we feared and respected things in equal measure, eg. teachers, parents, local bobby. Fear is somehow necessary and most come through the experience unscathed and as better people. Anyone who remembers those days and witnesses the anything goes 'I know my rights society' that we have today will be able to decide whether it was better then or now. If the wrongdoers aren't fearful, then everyone lives in fear.

 

[LastMagicBean]

As kids, we feared and respected things in equal measure, eg. teachers, parents, local bobby. Fear is somehow necessary and most come through the experience unscathed and as better people. Anyone who remembers those days and witnesses the anything goes 'I know my rights society' that we have today will be able to decide whether it was better then or now. If the wrongdoers aren't fearful, then everyone lives in fear.

The best comment of the year.

Absolutely right.

 

[Micilin]

If you are really interested in education, have a look at how they do it in Finland.

Consistently ranked in top three of the world, and they don't achieve this by following some pseudo-Victorian 'bring back the cane' agenda.
They look at how young people are motivated and how they learn.

Respect and fear are not the same thing,as we agree the balance is key.

Dextranous made a good point about effort being rewarded.

Carol Dweck's books on 'Mindset' are excellent on this I f anyone has an interest.

I recently saw the corporal punishment log from 1972 in a school. What struck me was that the same names kept appearing, which suggests it didn't really work.

I got caned at school, and deservedly so. No harm done at all , but some teachers were vicious sadists.

 

[ajstoneservices]

I recently saw the corporal punishment log from 1972 in a school. What struck me was that the same names kept appearing,

some teachers were vicious sadists.

It was the same at the schools I went to. The same few teachers whacking as many young bottoms as they could on the slightest pretexts . Makes you wonder doesn't it

 

[JBR]

If you are really interested in education, have a look at how they do it in Finland.

With respect, I think you are missing a very important point: society.

Yes, if we had the same sort of society as in Finland (and many other such places) there would be no need for much discipline.

Unfortunately, we have developed an 'it's always someone else's fault' and a 'my little darling can't possibly be at fault' society. Worse still, this attitude has been prevalent for at least a couple of generations and is now firmly established.

That's why we need to bring back discipline, not only at school but also in the home.

When our society is mended (if it ever can be now) we can think about adopting the Finnish system.

 

[LastMagicBean]

I recently saw the corporal punishment log from 1972 in a school. What struck me was that the same names kept appearing, which suggests it didn't really work.

A valid point. Same as most schools back then.(well it certainly was in my school).

But surely a thought worth considering is that when the disruptive individual is punished, the other twenty pupils in the class are left in peace to learn, until the next time he/she kicks off, which may be months.

Looking at the bigger picture though, the softly softly approach has quite simply failed.
Now we have sh*t parents bringing up sh*t kids.

The damage is done.

 

[LastMagicBean]

It was the same at the schools I went to. The same few teachers whacking as many young bottoms as they could on the slightest pretexts . Makes you wonder doesn't it

It's not about smacking young bottoms AJ

It's about discipline in general. It's no coincidence that since the abolition of discipline in schools we have more scum on our streets. Simple stuff.