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[JohnW2]

In your example, I'm not at all sure why the 'connection' to the second light is necessarily any more an 'exposed external connection' than that to the first.

The connection between the 2 lights is:a) outdoors b) exposed

You appear to be regarding the cable itself as being 'the connection', whereas I would interpret 'connection' as refering to an electrical connection ('termination'). If the cable is terminated within the enclosure formed by the lights, what are you saying is 'exposed' - just the (insulated and sleeved) cable?

Furthermore, what if one ran a length of underground SWA between two buildings (say 'to extend an existing circuit', which does not, in itself, require notification), with both ends terminated within the buildings. To my simple mind, there are then clearly no 'outdoor connections' at all (exposed or otherwise), but I wouldn't have expected you to say that the work didn't require notification.

Why not? Read Schedule 4 - what you have described is not a Special Installation....

I'm struggling to reconcile your view on this with the above. Do you regard an outdoor exposed (but insulated and sheathed) cable as 'a connection' or not?

Put another way, what would be meant by "an unexposed outdoor connection"?

A connection between 2 outdoor items which is not exposed.

Like a cable connecting two outdoor lights, terminated within each of the light enclosures? If so, I again struggle to reconcile this with the first point above.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The biggest problem here is that it is French.

So is this:

Your point being?




[EDIT]Edited to add a quote of the post to which this is a reply[/EDIT]

 

[securespark]

Wrong! An enclosure with electrical connections in it is an enclosure with electrical connections in it......

I'm confused - what is 'Wrong!', and where did this talk of enclosures come from?

Kind Regards, John

I am disagreeing with Ban & agreeing with your point.

I am assuming that when Ban talks of external connections he is including an enclosure around them.

 

[JohnW2]

I am disagreeing with Ban & agreeing with your point. I am assuming that when Ban talks of external connections he is including an enclosure around them.

Ah, thanks - and thanks for clarifying!

It's interesting to see that BAS is now seemingly defending Approved Doc P in this respect and saying that what it says is clear to him. He must have subsequently 'seen the light' since, in a very similar discussion over 3 years ago in this thread, he wrote:

It's all very illogical and inconsistent though, isn't it...

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

Maybe after 3 1/2 years, he's seeing the light!!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

And maybe John is being dishonest and disreputable and hoping to get away with an underhanded misrepresentation of a 3½ year old topic.

Or maybe he simply couldn't be rsed to read it properly.

It's all very illogical and inconsistent though, isn't it...

For the benefit of the hard-of-thinking and the lazy, that was a comment about the various attempts to make out that "exposed outdoor connections" had something to do with exposed outdoor junction boxes, or exposed outdoor terminals not in any sort of enclosure etc.

From the same topic:

when it says in Table 2 Additional Notes i that outside lighting is not notifiable provided that there are no exposed outdoor connections it does not mean "exposed" as in open to the elements, uncovered, open to touch - it means are they made outside, i.e. does any cable run outside and then go into the light.

Now consider if it would all make a lot more sense, and have none of these anomalies, if "connection" meant whatever ran between the luminaire and the source in order to connect it to the supply, and therefore that a light fixed to the wall with the cable running through the wall would not have an "exposed outdoor connection".....

 

[JohnW2]

And maybe John is being dishonest and disreputable and hoping to get away with an underhanded misrepresentation of a 3½ year old topic.

I can't be very proficient at misrepresenting, then, since I posted a link to it, so that people could look for themselves, and draw their own conclusions!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You appear to be regarding the cable itself as being 'the connection', whereas I would interpret 'connection' as refering to an electrical connection ('termination').

The problem then is that you are straight back into the lunacy of the AD recognising that exposed outdoor connections have validity.

If you regard "connection" as being used in the context of "is that light connected to this switch?" or "are those two lights connected together?" or "the shed is connected to the garage" then no such lunacy arises.

You have to decide, John, whether you think it likely that the writers of the AD intended to recognise and legitimise lunatic wiring practices or not.

I think not.

If the cable is terminated within the enclosure formed by the lights, what are you saying is 'exposed' - just the (insulated and sleeved) cable?

Yes.

I'm struggling to reconcile your view on this with the above. Do you regard an outdoor exposed (but insulated and sheathed) cable as 'a connection' or not?

Does it connect two things together?

If so, then it's a connection, is it not?

Like a cable connecting two outdoor lights, terminated within each of the light enclosures? If so, I again struggle to reconcile this with the first point above.

Why?

Do you struggle to tell whether there is a connection between the two lights or not, and if so whether it is outdoors and exposed or not?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I can't be very proficient at misrepresenting, then, since I posted a link to it, so that people could look for themselves, and draw their own conclusions!

Maybe you were hoping they wouldn't bother.

Or maybe you didn't read all 3 pages properly.

 

[PaulIG11]

The biggest problem here is that it is French.

So is this:

{snip}

Your point being?


[EDIT]Edited to add a quote of the post to which this is a reply[/EDIT]

On a decouvri par lissant que lui qui s'appelle "ban all sheds" se croit sorti de la cuise de Jupiter!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I am assuming that when Ban talks of external connections he is including an enclosure around them.

Err.... okaaay....

Wrong!

What do you think is wrong?

An enclosure with electrical connections in it is an enclosure with electrical connections in it......

Err... yes...


And?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

On a decouvri par lissant que lui qui s'appelle "ban all sheds" se croit sorti de la cuise de Jupiter!

Decouvri?

Do you mean découvert?

What has been discovered by smoothing?

 

[PaulIG11]

On a decouvri par lissant que lui qui s'appelle "ban all sheds" se croit sorti de la cuise de Jupiter!

Decouvri?

Do you mean découvert?

What has been discovered by smoothing?

Mon cher petit - tu ne m'a pas compris - et là, on a ponsé que tu savais tous. Je n'ai rien dit de "smoothing". Essaye encore une fois et taisse-toi lorse que tu es en traine de penser.....

 

[JohnW2]

If the cable is terminated within the enclosure formed by the lights, what are you saying is 'exposed' - just the (insulated and sleeved) cable?

Yes.

I'm struggling to reconcile your view on this with the above. Do you regard an outdoor exposed (but insulated and sheathed) cable as 'a connection' or not?

Does it connect two things together? If so, then it's a connection, is it not?

Indeed. My struggle relates to the fact that, in the first case, you believe that installation of a length of HiTuf joining two external lights is notifiable, because it is an 'outdoor exposed connection' but, in the second case, you have indicated (implicitly) that you would regard an outdoor length of SWA connecting two buildings as non-notifiable, even though you regard it as also being an 'exposed outdoor connection'.

I guess I must be missing something.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I guess I must be missing something.

No - not missing. Quite the opposite in fact.

Perhaps if when you look you fail to find anything written by me which expresses the belief that installation of a length of HiTuf joining two external lights is notifiable you will cease to struggle.